"The Phage" - a Trek masterpiece.

[You_Guyz]

I have just finished reatching "The Phage" and I do remember liking it but I had forgotten what an amazing episode it is.

What I love about this episode

-Atmospheric build up to Neelix's lungs being taken

-The unexpected reveal of Neelix's condition

-The interaction between the Doctor and Neelix was very funny and also very touching.

-The interaction between Kes and the Doctor was also touching and laid some very solid ground for their relationship and his character

-The understated but perfect reveal of the Vidiians - their makeup, their acting, their explanation of their situation.

-Janeway's emotional reaction to the Vidiians' plight (where did this emotional captain go?)

-The atmosphere of the whole episode - helped by a sparing use of music - not over the top and in fact suitably absent during the scene between Janeway and the Vidiians.

-So many funny doctors especially when interacting with the Vidiians, his sigh and walk off when the Vidiians criticise the holo-lungs he was so proud of is hilarious.

-The touching end of the episode with Neelix and Kes both lying in adjacent beds and the Doctor announcing that he will begin training Kes in medicine.

-The nacelles folding and warp off, love it when Voyager episodes end with a warp off

Season 1 of Voyager actually damned good.

 

[Voyagerian]

I found it a good ep, myself. The Kes-Neelix scenes first off, and Kathryn's with him just before the procedure begins..and the strongest point and one that's long stuck out for me in Voyager overall is Janeway's strong statement to the Vidiians in the transporter room. And, as said, Kes' moments with the Doctor, with whom she establishes a close friendship of mutual mentoring...The Vidiians were a unique alien concept.

 

[Lynx]

I've never thought of it as a masterpiece but always regarded it a very good episode.

And the review by You_Guyz hit the nail on the head by pointing out some of the highlights of this episode.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

It's scary! Very well done.

 

[Klaitu]

I am in favor of any activity that causes Neelix pain. Go Vidiians!

 

[C_Miller]

I thought it was very weak. Janeway letting the Viidians go, Neelix getting himself into the trouble. The fact that they took the lung from Kes rather than the Viidian. It sacrificed too much logic for drama. I'm not even a huge Voyager hater, but I can't say I'm a huge fan of this one.

 

[You_Guyz]

Why wouldn't Janeway let the Vidiians go? What would you have had her done with them?

 

[C_Miller]

They stole one of her crew's lungs. You make them give it back and then throw them in the brig or something. But you need to have them take you seriously. Stealing organs isn't exactly something where the Three Strikes Rule really fits, nor do you just give a slap on the wrist to that...

 

[You_Guyz]

-Janeway said she wasn't willing to keep them in the brig and why should she? They're low on resources enough supposedly without having to look after two sick Vidiians.
Besides she doesn't want to keep two diseases people around, she doesn't know if it is potentially contagious or not.

-Janeway realises that taking away that Vidiian's lungs is going to lead to his death. She isn't willing to do something that will kill him, plus she is clearly moved by the plight of the Vidiians. She makes a difficult decision that is very justifiable when considering the ethical implications of HER behaviour. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Its so easy to criticise Janeway here but you have to put yourself in her position and think about the moral code Starfleet follows.

 

[C_Miller]

-Janeway said she wasn't willing to keep them in the brig and why should she? They're low on resources enough supposedly without having to look after two sick Vidiians.
Besides she doesn't want to keep two diseases people around, she doesn't know if it is potentially contagious or not.

-Janeway realises that taking away that Vidiian's lungs is going to lead to his death. She isn't willing to do something that will kill him, plus she is clearly moved by the plight of the Vidiians. She makes a difficult decision that is very justifiable when considering the ethical implications of HER behaviour. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Its so easy to criticise Janeway here but you have to put yourself in her position and think about the moral code Starfleet follows.

I don't know what it's like in Starfleet, but in the military, your utmost responsibility is to your crew (well outside of the country, but that doesn't really apply here).

Now, while it's possible to live with one lung, it changes your life immensely, she shouldn't have subjected Neelix and Kes to this just because she felt guilty. And then on top of that, she let the man who stole Neelix's lungs perform the surgery. That's like having your cable fixed by the guy who stole your TV.

And there are plenty of times Janeway breaks the Starfleet moral code, just to suit her own agenda, when the crew isn't in danger. Now, I know what you're saying. I'm just a disgruntled, Janeway-hating Niner. Yes, Sisko does cross the moral code as well, but he doesn't preach about how he needs to uphold it one episode and then in the next episode torture someone...

 

[Pemmer Harge]

It's pretty good, and I appreciate the introduction of the Vidiians, but there's a bit too much Neelix for my tastes. I prefer some of the later Vidiian episodes.

 

[Finn]

-Janeway said she wasn't willing to keep them in the brig and why should she? They're low on resources enough supposedly without having to look after two sick Vidiians.
Besides she doesn't want to keep two diseases people around, she doesn't know if it is potentially contagious or not.

-Janeway realises that taking away that Vidiian's lungs is going to lead to his death. She isn't willing to do something that will kill him, plus she is clearly moved by the plight of the Vidiians. She makes a difficult decision that is very justifiable when considering the ethical implications of HER behaviour. Two wrongs do not make a right.

Its so easy to criticise Janeway here but you have to put yourself in her position and think about the moral code Starfleet follows.

I don't know what it's like in Starfleet, but in the military, your utmost responsibility is to your crew (well outside of the country, but that doesn't really apply here).

Now, while it's possible to live with one lung, it changes your life immensely, she shouldn't have subjected Neelix and Kes to this just because she felt guilty. And then on top of that, she let the man who stole Neelix's lungs perform the surgery. That's like having your cable fixed by the guy who stole your TV.

And there are plenty of times Janeway breaks the Starfleet moral code, just to suit her own agenda, when the crew isn't in danger. Now, I know what you're saying. I'm just a disgruntled, Janeway-hating Niner. Yes, Sisko does cross the moral code as well, but he doesn't preach about how he needs to uphold it one episode and then in the next episode torture someone...

You_Guyz nailed it. Janeway didn't cross the moral code in this one. It also was common sense. The lungs they took from Neelix may have been contiminated and they couldn't risk Neelix getting it.... And why in the galaxy would they keep two dying, dieased in the brig, when they are better off on their own. They have more advanced medical technology so using the sickbay wouldn't be better for them.

And you seem to be more interested in punishment as justice. What good would it do? These men have been driven to deseperation. Their race have been decimated for millenia by a disease. They were once like the 24th Century Humans. And again, it would be impratical and cruel for Janeway to force them to stay aboard.

 

[Kai Winn]

And there are plenty of times Janeway breaks the Starfleet moral code, just to suit her own agenda, when the crew isn't in danger. Now, I know what you're saying. I'm just a disgruntled, Janeway-hating Niner. Yes, Sisko does cross the moral code as well, but he doesn't preach about how he needs to uphold it one episode and then in the next episode torture someone...

methinks you're a disgruntled, janeway-hating niner. kate wouldn't have wailed in the pale moonlight, but instructed garak herself to do something about that romulan. she was a lot more determined than sisko. might have solved the dominion problem well before season 6.

 

[kimc]

Yes, Sisko does cross the moral code as well, but he doesn't preach about how he needs to uphold it one episode and then in the next episode torture someone...

Who got tortured here? The lungs were already stolen. Having Kes volunteer to give Neelix a lung was the best compromise in that situation.

As for Sisko he was never able to hold my attention enough for me to get into DS9. Perhaps I'll try again someday...

 

[I am not Spock]

Rewatching the first two seasons of VOY recently, and its struck me how much better many of the episodes are than I remembered.

 

[Kai Winn]

As for Sisko he was never able to hold my attention enough for me to get into DS9. Perhaps I'll try again someday...

somebody's putting all ds9 epsiodes on youtube at the moment, in german though. every day two or three more episodes. had a nice one yesterday, 'life support'. up to voy standards. here's the 1th part of 'emissary', http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOU_mL5IDhw

 

[You_Guyz]

Yes, Sisko does cross the moral code as well, but he doesn't preach about how he needs to uphold it one episode and then in the next episode torture someone...

Who got tortured here? The lungs were already stolen. Having Kes volunteer to give Neelix a lung was the best compromise in that situation.

As for Sisko he was never able to hold my attention enough for me to get into DS9. Perhaps I'll try again someday...

DS9 is my favorite show and I pretty much despise Brooks (and as a result dislike Sisko immensely), his acting was just awful imo. You gotta just try and ignore that to like DS9.
While I like DS9 more than Voyager, I found Janeway infinitely more watchable than Sisko.

Rewatching the first two seasons of VOY recently, and its struck me how much better many of the episodes are than I remembered.

I agree, I have been introducing my friend to Star Trek by way of Voyager (the only first season Trek episode I had on me away at college) and have been rewatching some season 1 episodes. I find them most to be pretty excellent. Even ones I have bad memories of like "The Cloud" I find to be lifted up by some great dialogue and character interactions.

 

[RegFan]

"The Phage" is the only Neelix-centered episode where he was annoying. In "Jetrel" he wasn't as annoying as in other episodes of the first three seasons. I don't like that episode because of Neelix.

 

[QuasarVM]

I liked the episode, but they should have called it "Neelix' Lungs"...

 

[You_Guyz]

I liked the episode, but they should have called it "Neelix' Lungs"...

Why is that funny?