The Peter David appreciation & discussion thread

[Darth_Pazuzu]

After reading Before Dishonor, I've been re-reading some of my favorite Star Trek: The Next Generation novels by Peter David - including Vendetta, Q-In-Law, Imzadi, Q-Squared and Triangle: Imzadi II - as well as The Siege, the first DS9 novel and (so far) David's only DS9 solo work. (I'm also a huge fan of all things New Frontier, and I bought all five issues of the recent comic book.)

I happen to think Peter David is a brilliant writer. He has a good grasp of the Star Trek milieu and its characters (especially TNG), and he also has a healthy sense of irreverence about it as well (not necessarily a bad thing). I remember clearly getting through Q-Squared very quickly, and miraculously I had no trouble understanding it at all! Vendetta is also a brilliant piece of work. My all-time favorite Star Trek novel by Peter David, however, is definitely - hands down - Once Burned, his New Frontier story from the Captain's Table series!

Peter David also has a tendency to be ahead of the curve in terms of Trek storytelling trends on the TV shows. One really interesting thing about his first Imzadi novel is that it predates the TNG finale All Good Things..., but I can imagine everyone in the alternate future timeline wearing the uniforms we see in that episode as well as The Visitor (DS9) and Endgame (VGR)! One could also make a strong argument for Imzadi being something of an influence on the latter two episodes in terms of its subject matter, in that we see a main character acting in defiance of the integrity of the space/time continuum and risking the alteration of history in order to save the lives of people they love. (Granted, in The Visitor, the morality of this is never really dealt with...) Of course, I can't really say this to an absolute certainty, as you'd probably have to ask Rick Berman and the writers (who of course would probably deny it! )

True, his sense of humor can be hit-and-miss at times. In Triangle: Imzadi II, I loved Worf's account to a horrified Deanna about witnessing the untimely yet comedic death of famed bat'leth expert K'Plok - and making a mental note to himself to get rid of the man's head afterwards! (You'll just have to read it for yourself...) On the other hand, the whole confusion of the name John Donne with the word "done" had me palm-slapping my forehead in exasperation. (And I think the whole business about Odo's name sounding just like "oh no, but with a bad head cold!" in The Siege fits into that category as well!)

And, of course, his storytelling often verges on the...how shall I say?...hyperbolic. A prime recent example of this would be the Borg's devouring of Pluto in Before Dishonor. (!!!!!!)

But there are few other writers working in Trek fiction (now or in the past) who are as capable of putting as much heart, humor, spills and thrills into an entire novel as much as David is capable of putting into a single page. Granted, Keith R.A. DeCandido, David Mack, David R. George III, Christopher Bennett, Una McCormack, Heather Jarman, Andy Mangels, Michael A. Martin, etc., are all great writers...but there's only one Peter David!

Anyway, I just have to ask my fellow TrekBBS posters (and the other writers as well) what some of their favorite Peter David Trek stories and novels are. And also, what do you think some of the funniest moments are in Peter's Trek novels?

P.S.
Q 4 KRAD : I really enjoyed Q & A a great deal, and I just have to ask Keith if Peter has read the novel, and if he has, what does he think of it? Before reading Q & A, I always thought that Peter David was the Q novelist, but I have to say that Q & A is every bit the equal of his own Q novels!

 

[Trent Roman]

Before Dishonor really burned me. That said, it's an exception, if a pretty spectacular one, to an otherwise solid record for David where I'm concerned. Not Trek related, but a friend of mine into comic books recently lent me the first twenty-odd issues of his run on X-Factor, and I've really enjoyed them.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Darth_Pazuzu]

Before Dishonor really burned me. That said, it's an exception, if a pretty spectacular one, to an otherwise solid record for David where I'm concerned. Not Trek related, but a friend of mine into comic books recently lent me the first twenty-odd issues of his run on X-Factor, and I've really enjoyed them.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

I read somewhere that when Gene L. Coon wrote the script for Spock's Brain (from The Original Series - under the pseudonym Lee Cronin), a lot of people thought that was being irreverent and taking a jibe at people's obsessive fandom of the character of Spock. Do you think perhaps that Peter David was doing something similar to the Borg with Before Dishonor - or do you think he was just off his game? (For the record, for all the story's over-the-top, hyperbolic nature, I thought the novel was actually pretty good, if not exactly up there with the best of Peter's best Trek work from the '90s.)

 

[Therin of Andor]

I read somewhere that when Gene L. Coon wrote the script for Spock's Brain (from The Original Series - under the pseudonym Lee Cronin), a lot of people thought that was being irreverent and taking a jibe at people's obsessive fandom of the character of Spock.

Gene Coon put his pseudonym on the script because he was protesting what Fred Frieberger turned it into.

Now, I'm not really sure how the episode could have been better as a comedy, but Coon was quoted as saying it was meant be as intentionally funny as "The Trouble With Tribbles", and because Frieberger insisted it be played straight, it comes off as high camp.

Re Peter David:

"Before Dishonor" is hardly the first PAD novel to make lots of fans angry. Many people seemed to dislike "Restoration", the third part of the "EXcalibur" trilogy (especially since they were forced to buy a hardcover, or wait a whole year for the MMPB). The other one that often raises ire is "Gateways: Cold Wars" - one that I loved, despite some timeline problems, but lots of others hated.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Gene Coon put his pseudonym on the script because he was protesting what Fred Frieberger turned it into.

Not to derail the topic, but my understanding is that Gene Coon wrote "Spock's Brain" as "Lee Cronin" while under exclusive contract to another studio. He'd agreed to write a few scripts for the third TOS season as a condition of being let out of his contract at Desilu (was it Paramount by this point?). Doing it as "Lee Cronin" allowed him to fly under his current employer's radar as well as keep his word to the Trek producers.

 

[Christopher]

Dayton's right. According to Inside Star Trek, it was a contractual matter, not a protest. It was D.C. Fontana who used her Michael Richards pseudonym because she was dissatisfied with how her third-season scripts ended up; perhaps Therin is confusing the two writers.

 

[JD]

I think my favorite Peter David book would have to be Q Squared, which is easily one of the best Q stories ever, along with Q & A of course.

 

[Therin of Andor]

perhaps Therin is confusing the two writers.

I do recall the "Inside Star Trek" comment now, but before that book came out, the standard reason for pseudonyms on ST was usually the disgruntled writer scenario, not the contractual arrangement one. Coon was supposedly annoyed with how Friedberger was handling "Spock's Brain", though.

But thanks Dayton.

 

[DarKush]

Regarding Imzadi I often thought it had a real influence on All Good Things in the portrayal of Riker, Troi's death, and the Riker-Worf tension.

Back to appreciating PAD. Count me in. His novels remain at the top of my favorite Star Trek books. He's one of the few novelists period that can totally get me swept up in a book. I'm not a fast reader, but I seem to zip through PAD's works quite a bit. And not just Star Trek. I think he wrote the Photon books as David Peters, and I read one of those as a kid-loved it-wish I had been able to get the others. I also thought B5: Legion of Fire trilogy was spectacular.

PAD just has some a grasp of Trek lore, he knows how to create complex, epic adventures and mix them with humor and sometimes unforgettable characters. Imazdi, Q-Squared, Vendetta, Once Burned, and A Rock and a Hard Place are must reads. But many of the early NF books, The Rift, and The Captain's Daughter were fun too.

However, it's not all good. I started to lose interest in NF during the whole Excalibur trilogy thing when they blew up the ship and I've never really gotten back into it, though I enjoyed MIA. I also thought Before Dishonor was horrible. It was like PAD giving into his worst excesses. Whereas Calhoun was fresh and different when NF started, he's become boring and a bit too over the top to be taken seriously. I also don't like the splitting of the crew. Kat Mueller and that bunch don't do much for me.

The NF comic miniseries also was underwhelming. PAD took too long to get into the story and then the conclusion was underwhelming and predictable.

Despite the recent missteps he's still my favorite Trek author. I just hope he gets back to form soon.

 

[Christopher]

^^It's unlikely that the novels had any influence on any of the episodes, since the makers of a TV show are too busy making their show to have much time to read books. Also, they'd be understandably reluctant to expose themselves to others' story ideas. Heck, if they had read a book and seen that a particular story had been told in it, that would probably lead them to avoid using that idea. If anything, the fact that they made episodes with similarities to certain books is probably evidence that they didn't know about those books.

It's extremely, extremely common for different people to come up with similar plots or character arcs independently of each other. By far the most common reason that freelance authors' pitches get rejected is "We're already doing that one." When you're dealing with a particular set of characters with particular attributes and relationships, and playing within the rules of a particular universe, then that automatically steers you in the direction of certain story possibilities, so it's all but inevitable that some ideas will occur to multiple people, completely independently of one another.

 

[Dayton Ward]

Coon was supposedly annoyed with how Friedberger was handling "Spock's Brain", though.

Oh, of that, I have no doubt

 

[Sto-Vo-Kory]

I just finished reading "Imzadi II" last night and I also thought the whole "great Klingon comedian" K'plop bit was hilarious. The timing and delivery of that segment was spot-on.

I am also a Peter David fan and hold a very high opinion of his Trek work. His '90s Next Gen titles and early New Frontier work set the bar for quality in Trek fiction. This high standard is being met frequently within the current staple of Trek writers (I'm very pleased to say) so it is easy to forget how trail-blazing Mr. David's work was at that time. The New Frontier experiment of a prose-exclusive Trek series was successful due to his popular style -- a style that, love it or hate it, is unique to tie-in fiction, then and now.

My favorite aspect of PAD's writing style is the banter. Not only does he nail each and every character's voice perfectly (not an easy feat), his back-and-forth dialogue is a joy to read. True, he can drop puns like the worst of them, but when he has two characters bantering with two very different POVs, I just lose myself in the book. His banter can go on for page after page and still remain readable and enjoyable. I don't know of many Trek fiction writers even today that can maintain this level of character interplay for pages on end.

(Not to knock the writers of today -- different styles, different ways of story-telling -- not necessarily better or worse, just a matter of personal taste.)

 

[Caleuche]

Before Dishonor really burned me. That said, it's an exception, if a pretty spectacular one, to an otherwise solid record for David where I'm concerned.

That pretty much sums it up for me as well. My favourite trek book is Q-in-law which is a Peter David, Vendetta, Imzadi are Peter Davids and I've got all the New Frontiers with the exception of the comic books which I can't find for sale. I think his biggest problem is that he seems to have lost the ability to determine how absurd is too absurd, so we've had a number of things recently such as space-going rowing boats, talking villianous mastermind Gerbil/Tribbles and the aforementioned devouring of Pluto.

The thing that made Before Dishonor stand out for me was the fact that it was the first time that he appeared to be having problem with consistent characterisation with people doing and acting in ways which they wouldn't have or would have at the start of series. Prior to this I would have listed characterisation as his greatest strength.

That said he has written numerous good Trek Books and has been doing so for a long time. I think Before Dishonor was a temporary blip, I can't see how it could be otherwise.

 

[JD]

I think his biggest problem is that he seems to have lost the ability to determine how absurd is too absurd, so we've had a number of things recently such as space-going rowing boats, talking villianous mastermind Gerbil/Tribbles and the aforementioned devouring of Pluto.

TBH, I actually thought the villanous mastermind Gerbil/Triblle was pretty funny myself. Mostly just because it was so completely unexpected.

 

[Therin of Andor]

TBH, I actually thought the villanous mastermind Gerbil/Triblle was pretty funny myself. Mostly just because it was so completely unexpected.

Here, here. I'm hopeless at guess whodunnits. Janos investigating the murder of Gleau had me confounded because it was so obvious that a mugato had dunnit. Then the main villain is the old gerbil/tribble switcheroo. Brilliant.

And the ending of "Stone and Anvil" is... great!

 

[Nardpuncher]

I kind of grew up with David's Trek work. The DC comics run he had ( both older and newer) and that sunny Wednesday in April of '91 when I got Vendetta.
I was mildly surprised when I found the Trek bbs and the lit forum and found that there were people that idn't like or just weren't very fond of his stuff.
Sometimes I'll recall a Trek scene (usually TNG) and then wonder what epsiode it was from to later remember that it was from a PAD novel!

 

[Steve Roby]

Anyway, I just have to ask my fellow TrekBBS posters (and the other writers as well) what some of their favorite Peter David Trek stories and novels are. And also, what do you think some of the funniest moments are in Peter's Trek novels?

I remember really liking PAD's Trek comics. As for his novels, I remember particularly enjoying Imzadi, The Captain's Daughter, and Once Burned. I find him maddeningly inconsistent, though; in some books, he shows that he really knows and gets Star Trek and is putting a fresh new spin on it; in others, I find myself thinking, damn, this is a sloppy, self-indulgent mess that has next to nothing to do with Star Trek.

As for his humour, he evidently doesn't believe in the "kill your darlings" approach to writing. I first read about that in a Max Allan Collins mystery novel; a character in the book, a writer, explained that there are often little lines or scenes in a book that the author really loves, and those are often the bits that should be removed. I'd nominate the Pheytus stuff from New Frontier as an example; if you're going to make a bad pun on a name you made up yourself, at least spell it in such a way that a lot of people won't be confused because they're pronouncing it as phay-tus instead of phee-tus. Like me, for example. The fact that PAD, on another occasion, actually complained publicly about his editor cutting one of his worst jokes from a New Frontier book, instead of realizing what a big favour the editor had done for him, suggests that he needs more adult supervision.

 

[captcalhoun]

i've never read a PAD novel i didn't like.

for a while between 1997 and 2005 NF was the only new Trek novels i was even reading.

 

[Caleuche]

I think his biggest problem is that he seems to have lost the ability to determine how absurd is too absurd, so we've had a number of things recently such as space-going rowing boats, talking villianous mastermind Gerbil/Tribbles and the aforementioned devouring of Pluto.

TBH, I actually thought the villanous mastermind Gerbil/Triblle was pretty funny myself. Mostly just because it was so completely unexpected.

I have no idea what TBH stands for! As for the Gerible, it isn't quite as unexpected if you've ever read Hitchhikers Guide where it worked so much better in my opinion. I just couldn't visualise Picard with his pompous ways and formal English speech allowing himself to be threatened by this small furry rodent thing. Its simply to bizarre an image for me!

 

[Christopher]

From context, I believe TBH means "To be honest."