The Pegasus/These Are the Voyages

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Mattadd, Oct 28, 2017.

  1. Push The Button

    Push The Button Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
    Poor Trip, he deserved better.
     
  2. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2001
    Location:
    On the run.
    Although we're talking about the last episode of a cancelled Trek show, three years after the TNG movies were dead. I'm sure they could have made an exception at that point. ;)

    (Not that I would have wanted them to.)
     
  3. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    1123 6536 5321
    One thing I do like about this episode is it really shows how a holo-novel would work. Even though holodeck adventures appear through TNG, DS9 & VOY, you never see them played out to this detail. I like how it shows you could play the part of an "extra" on the bridge and watch what's going, be a random security officer etc and take part in the action. Or then switch to subjective mode and just watch what's going on. I thought that was a cool concept to finally see.
     
  4. UnknownSample

    UnknownSample Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Location:
    Earth's surface
    This was not an idea worth saving. And The Pegasus wasn't a standout Next Gen episode. And there's nothing going on on Enterprise that help him deal with Riker's dilemma. It's just incompetent writing. You can't shoehorn Next Gen into Enterprise.
     
  5. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    I think that it wasn't entirely necessary to go outside TNG in order to find a story that fit with the idea of learning from the NX to apply to present day. There would seem to be useful parallels between "The Outcast" and the Trip-T'Pol relationship that Riker could apply to his choices. I doubt that Berman and Braga would have the courage to use that episode as a reference, and Pegasus was much grander.

    The bigger problem would always be that there would be no interaction between the casts because of the framing device: the holodeck. Riker was never going to make an impact on the 22nd century, and the NX characters would be there more or less to amuse him.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    I don't know, considering how stubborn they're known to be...
     
  7. Just_A_Random_Guy

    Just_A_Random_Guy Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2017
    Once i got bored and joined both episodes into 1 video once, but yeah the part where he said he is gonna talk to the captain and then he never does made edit bit fucked up :D
     
  8. suarezguy

    suarezguy Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2008
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM, USA
    I think most TNG fans felt underwhelmed with it but not insulted by it. But it is pretty insulting to Enterprise fans and especially Trip fans.

    Less so than did a lot of season 1 and 2 episodes.
     
  9. Shawnster

    Shawnster Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2008
    Location:
    Clinton, OH
    Riker could have been depicted as being in command of the Titan or the Enterprise-E and the Sovereign model not be shown. Surely the spirit Paramount restriction wouldn't have been violated by depicted an interior scene on the E-E, say Riker's quarters, a new lounge/10 Forward, Riker's ready room, etc...

    You can still end the episode with showing the exteriors of the NX-10 through 1701-D.
     
  10. STR

    STR Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2009
    Location:
    Out there. Thatta way.
    Set it on the Enterprise-E before Riker leaves? It's not like we know a lot about what they crew was doing between FC and NEM. I mean, you could have made it about whether or not Riker should leave the E-E for Titan. That, at least, has some level of thematic compatibility with the last voyage of the NX crew.
     
  11. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    He and Data then went to Holodeck 2 to see if Captain Lorca had any insight into dealing with mutineers.
     
    Satron likes this.
  12. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    What if the Pegasus framing story was ANOTHER holodeck re-enactment? During the Titan era, Riker and Troi could be conducting it as part of a therapy session to work out lingering issues with Pressman, decide how he could have handled the situation better, etc. An additional simulation of TATV is just an incidental part of that. It'd explain the differences in their appearance, the lack of immediate relevance of TATV to the Pegasus incident, and the lack of sync to the Pegasus events. "I'm ready to go talk to Captain Picard" just means he's come to some new conclusion. The exercise is over.

    I don't have much desire to rewatch TATV just to see if that would work. Anyone know if there are specific references in the episode that keep it from working?
     
  13. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    What's worse is that the writers actually think this is something a person could do during a crisis. What would they do if they were in the Navy, trapped in a secluded island inlet, with an enemy ship circling the island waiting for a chance to attack? Hang on, let me just spend an hour role-playing online and see if the game can make up my mind for me... :cardie:
     
    fireproof78 likes this.
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2013
    Location:
    Bad Thoughts
    It still suffers from two problems: there are no real interactions between the two time periods, and the story is based upon the guest characters rather than growing organically from the stories that Enterprise was doing.

    If you want it to be based on the Titan, why not have a Living Witness type episode, wherein Riker, on his mission to the Romulans, attempts to correct the record on something that Archer did during the Earth-Romulan War. Perhaps Shran or Phlox are still alive to testify.

    Or they find the Enterprise (or its duplicate from the Xindi War) and try to piece together the story of how it was lost.
     
  15. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    I'm not talking about rewriting it. I'm talking an alternate interpretation of what we actually saw. If it doesn't work, then okay.
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    I think it was more like a few days.
     
  17. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    They were in that asteroid for a few days??
     
  18. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    There are exterior shots of the Enterprise D throughout the episode, with none of the NX-01, the reason being that since the stuff on the NX-01 is simulated, it would make no sense to include exterior shots of the ship. When objections were raised that the show's main ship should appear in the final episode, the montage of Enterprises was hastily thought up. So it would be odd that the Enterprise D does get exterior shots if that stuff is also a simulation done up on the Titan's holodecks.
     
  19. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2017
    Location:
    Middle West
    I mean from the time they picked the admiral and went out looking.
     
  20. Silvercrest

    Silvercrest Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2003
    Good point. I guess it gets relegated to head-canon (with the exterior shots conveniently excised).