I disagree. I like the fact that a vastly outgunned ship was shown to be vastly outgunned.
The Pacing of Space Battles: Old vs. New
- Thread starter Stadi
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I disagree. I like the fact that a vastly outgunned ship was shown to be vastly outgunned.
The reason warp was shot the way it was, like a bucking bronco or bobsled run and the camera shaking like mad (and sound effects that reminded me of a creaky house), was purely for aesthetics. There's no precedent for "uncontrollable" warp travel outside of the swaying back and forth of the refit when it fell into a wormhole in TMP.
I think TNG ships already move too fast (JJ's I don't like at all).
Since the first time I watched Encounter af Farpoint, the Enterprise moved (turned) too quickly. I guess they wanted to represent it had more powerful engines (and showcase their modern special effects).
The problem for me it that slowness can represent mass, and that way they loose that illusion.
It got worse with the battles with the Borg, and the movies. Giant starships jumping and being tossed around look like toys.
Compare the scene from TMP when VGer emits lightning and the Enterprise rolls slowly, or TWOK when the ships turn inside the nebula. That looks more like thousands of tons.
This pretty much goes for any subject on the internet.
One thing I appreciate about DS9's big battles was that while we had the zippy Defiant, they were at least consistent in showing the Galaxy, Excelsior, and a couple others as lumbering beasts, only zooming by if it was at impulse and only then in a straight line.
But I remember the pilot and just how fast the Excelsior and Nebula was there. They made tight, almost 90 degree turns in their attack run on the Borg cube, and it just seemed really, really off, half-expecting to hear tire screeches -- in space.
The Capital ship battles in Star Wars were actually slower paced that the ones Star Trek shows- we just get the feeling of chaotic speed because instead of sitting off and watching the big ships fire at each other we are following the point of view of one of the smaller ships zipping around and between the hulls. When you look at the ships engaging in RotJ and RotS the capital ships are only moving a slow speed toward each other or passing by with broadsides.
The Nemesis battle is the worst- it is difficult to wrap your head around it when one of the protagonists is invisible. TWoK had one of the best ones- you felt the mass of the ships and felt the affects the combat had on the crew.
The NuTrek battles are designed around providing excitement for the viewer- I am still undecided about how I like them as a whole- there are some shots which work well and others which don't..
The Nemesis battle is the worst- it is difficult to wrap your head around it when one of the protagonists is invisible. TWoK had one of the best ones- you felt the mass of the ships and felt the affects the combat had on the crew.
The NuTrek battles are designed around providing excitement for the viewer- I am still undecided about how I like them as a whole- there are some shots which work well and others which don't..
Yeah. The sense is it's controlled, but in the same way a Formula 1 or NASCAR driver keeps control of his car at the maximum speed possible. They're on the knife's edge of control. Precision is everything. It only takes a small thing going wrong to create disaster. I think ST09 and STID did a good job showing that what may have been taken as routine by TNG wasn't back then (transporting included).
As far as the pacing of space battles goes, I hated the ones in SW (the original) because they didn't seem to be taking advantage of being in space. It was like naval warfare, with the TIE and X-Wings as fighters in the air, and the bigger starships on the water slugging it out with each other. Why weren't the larger ships more maneuverable in 3D space?Also, why the hell didn't those fighters have the ability to fire out their backs? And banking into turns? Ugh.
The Kelvin battle with Nero in ST09 certainly portrayed the chaotic, furious, and uncontrollable pace of battle, but it did it so well it wasn't always easy for me to follow it. I think I watched it for the third time before I finally saw Kirk's dad hit the missile that was going directly for his son's shuttle. And things slowed a bit for to show that moment.
Meh. Shields are holding, they're weakened, or they're down. We don't need no steenking shield percentages.
This. There was nothing that seemed remotely dangerous about warp up until the Abrams films.
Meh. Shields are holding, they're weakened, or they're down. We don't need no steenking shield percentages.
But how am I going to calculate the yield of fiction energy beams on fictional energy shields without those numbers? HOW?!?
Kirk once said of the risk of engaging warp while inside the solar system. That's a sure and definitive indication of... something.
I'm talking about something we could see. As much as I love TMP, their attempt to make warp drive seem dangerous came across as cartoony.
We were always told warp was dangerous, yet we never really saw it.
Basically this. With the faster pacing of the new movies, there's no way they could ever have a battle like Wrath of Khan in them. It has to be faster and more overwhelming like Star Wars to match the rest. So I feel like the question could encompass more than just the pace of the battles, but the pace of the movies as well.
With your (yes, also-fictional) Starfleet-issue tricorder, of course.Meh. Shields are holding, they're weakened, or they're down. We don't need no steenking shield percentages.
But how am I going to calculate the yield of fiction energy beams on fictional energy shields without those numbers? HOW?!?
It can make all of the measurements and perform all of the necessary calculations using algorithms already programmed into the device. Just pop it open, wave it vaguely at the nearest fiction-energy beam or whatever, and Bing! It will tell you exactly what you need to know at that particular moment.
I don't know how anybody manages to get anything done without one.
It does make one wonder what 23c smart phones will be like.
Cool aesthetics are the reason for every warp effect since TMP. Pre-Star Wars, Trek had no warp speed effects at all.
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