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THE ORVILLE S1, E8: "INTO THE FOLD"

Rate the episode:

  • ***** Excellent

    Votes: 22 29.3%
  • ****

    Votes: 33 44.0%
  • ***

    Votes: 13 17.3%
  • **

    Votes: 5 6.7%
  • * Fear the banana

    Votes: 2 2.7%

  • Total voters
    75
It wouldn't sock me if rejected Trek script ideas were re-purposed for the show. It would be welcomed, too.

Back in 2011 McFarlane was seriously pushing a relaunch of Star Trek with himself at the helm. It wouldn't surprise me if several of the Season 1 scripts were originally story ideas for his Trek show, and then modified slightly to work outside of Trek canon.
 
The one weak spot for me (and it was very minor) was how Claire said "we don't kill" after just killing a couple of locals. That could have been written better to help justify her actions.
I can definitely see that.

I found myself filling in a blank there, by interpreting what I was seeing as an example of when Finn was comfortable with killing by principles that she didn't believe applied at the moment, because she hadn't had access to nonlethal effective weaponry as she escaped, and I took it as a commentary on how many parental prescriptions lack nuance, yet still serve a valuable purpose by helping to define values. She didn't even have to tell her children that she had just killed in a situation when it was OK to do so until years later, if ever.

Another thing was that the rescue shuttle was firing on the hostiles with a stronger setting than stun. Maybe that fact deserved comment too. What if the elder son had thought to be a smart ass at that moment and observed that the rescuers weren't firing on stun? Their intent obviously wasn't to wipe out the natives, but rather to halt their advance that Isaac and the kid were unable to (sorry, still learning names), but I'm not so sure that all of the natives in the rescuers' field of fire made it either.
 
I'm surprised people are having a problem with the killing versus valuing life.

It's not a very major nuance. If you can kill or nonlethally disable your enemy with equal effort, you disable them. But if by attempting to disable rather than kill would increase the odds of you or your team taking casualties, you kill. This is not a contradiction. Only Sith deal in absolutes.
 
I'm surprised people are having a problem with the killing versus valuing life.

It's not a very major nuance. If you can kill or nonlethally disable your enemy with equal effort, you disable them. But if by attempting to disable rather than kill would increase the odds of you or your team taking casualties, you kill. This is not a contradiction. Only Sith deal in absolutes.
Who's having "a problem" with it? My comments, and the point I was replying to as I read it, were concerned mainly with how it was being presented to the children. How to teach children was pretty much the foremost topic of the episode and this issue in particular was raised, so discussing it is hardly indicative of people having "a problem" with it.
 
A wonderful, wonderful episode. I was not expecting to get hit with the feels and have the kids see Isaac as a surrogate father. Also it was great to see Brian Thompson, one of my favorite character TV actors EVER!
 
I did not like it, again I found the story boring and to be honest, wholely unoriginal and not entertaining.
 
It would have been one of those middle of the pack star trek episodes I probably wouldn't re watch often. It was a decent outing and I'm glad to have the orville for another season.
 
With this episode, The Orville finally becomes a great show. There's so much about this episode that's well done. The focus on Claire and her two sons, as well as Isaac, brought much needed focus to the show, and while it's the atypical stranded on a planet/moon with unsavory locals scenario, the episode told the story in a satisfying manner that brought growth to all four characters.

The greatest highlight of the episode was Claire. I loved that she actively chose to be a single mother and the show presented that choice in a positive light. Not many shows show single parents in a casual manner like most do with "nuclear families," and its even rarer to see a woman who deliberately chose that life, let alone present that life without negative commentary.

On a smaller level, I liked how Claire didn't hesitate to give her oldest son a weapon in a moment of crisis when he stood up to say he would help Isaac. She quickly pointed out the necessity of the stun setting, but there was no whinging about arming a child in that moment, and then Claire quickly disarms him after the battle commences. And I say that as someone who is not a fan of guns in general.

I also liked how there's essentially no B-story, trusting Penny Johnson Jerald and company to carry their story on their own. The Orville tracks the shuttle crash, but it's only a small part of the episode so they can reasonably arrive in time to do the final clean-up of the attack.

I hope the show continues to do episodes like this one because this was a great balance of drama and comedy while telling a good story. And here's the kicker, which I know without reading this thread that some people hate, Brannon Braga co-wrote and directed episode...and did a great job all around.
 
It was nice to get some solid focus on Claire and Isaac. They did a pretty good job with the kids, which can often be tricky in these kinds of episodes. They were annoying at first, but by the end I actually kind of liked them.
Seeing Brian Thompson was fun.
The glory hole bit was funny, another example of the show coming up with jokes and humor that really felt organic to the situation and believable.
Unless I missed it somewhere we didn't appear to get the bit about Gordon thinking about getting a cat that they showed in the promo.
 
It reminds me, in part, of a DS9 episode with Quark and Odo crash-landed on a planet, and TNG episode with Picard and Wesley crashed on a planet though those had different dynamics and back-drops for their stories and how things happened. (Namely dealing with the confrontation between Odo and Quark and Wesley getting in one final adventure before leaving the Enterprise for good.)

For me, it immediately took me back to that Voyager episode where Tuvok crash landed on a planet and was babysitting those little kids. The interactions between the robotic Vulcan and the children begin children were very much like those of Isaac and Dr. Finn's children.
 
Claire doesn't say "We don't kill." She says "We value life," which is slightly different.

Her behavior in the story made sense to me as a parent's behavior, and I'm glad the writers didn't spend any screen time trying to rationalize her inconsistency.

She was willing to use any means necessary to escape from the guy holding her prisoner (the SO reminded me as she climbed across the high ledge from window to window that she's established as being terrified of heights). She probably killed the guy. She's responsible for herself and what she does, and I imagine that she's pretty upset at herself when she has the time, later - she's slow to file her report, we know that.

Later, when she's arming her older son in a desperate situation, her motive is to protect him almost as much in moral and emotional respects as physically. She's sending a kid who's probably never been directly exposed to real violence out with a weapon, after all. She knows what the weapon is capable of, that he doesn't need to use lethal force, and also that he has no concept of what that would be like for him.

Bottom line is, sometimes we do things we're not happy about and would hope our children never need to do. We want them to learn better lessons, to be better and for the world to be better to them than our own experience may have been.
 
When Finn was being held captive, did she say something about maybe her translator not working right?
Yep, after they guy tells her she's in a "safe place" she sarcastically says "I don't think my translator is working right, because it sounds like you said 'safe place.'" Given she didn't have her communicator with her, there's obviously a separate device used for translating.
For a bit in there I thought: If the shuttle got damaged and cant' get back, then the Orville might get damaged enough to where it has to stay in uncharted space for a while as repairs as made,
I don't see any reason why the "Glory Hole" can't be two ways, but even if it wasn't, it'll only take them a matter of weeks to get back to Union space, so they're not really in any relevant form of isolation. Besides, Kelly said at the end of the episode they've already been in contact with the Admiralty, so if worse came to worse, they could always send a distress signal and reinforcements would arrive relatively quickly through the Glory Hole.

I love that I'm having a totally serious conversation using the term "Glory Hole."
 
So, the previews for this episode didn't look terribly exciting, although I was looking forward to the focus being on Claire and Isaac-- this show has been good on giving attention to all their characters. Well, it was pretty exciting, but I can't say that it was up to the standards of most of the previous episodes. I've gotten spoiled by Orville already. I feel cheated when there's no message.

Of the two characters in the spotlight, Isaac fared the best. Although these hyper-intelligent characters who express constant naivete over illogical humans and their culture strain credulity, it's almost always amusing and serves to throw an objective light on humanity. And here we see that Isaac's characterization is clearly defined and he is neither Spock nor Data-- he has no inner turmoil over whether to be more or less human, but he is very interested in the subject without being critical. And he has no objection to adapting to his surroundings, as witness his willingness to hold the kid's hand and his unsolicited gesture to Claire later on. He learns without prejudice, making him very likeable. Claire, on the other hand, was just given the standard trope of the mother out to protect her babies. It was done very well, but the only thing we really learned is that Claire set out to be a single mother.

I was a bit disappointed that the Jell-O Guy didn't freak out more over Claire's disappearance, although he did make a concerned statement. This makes me think that there's either a scene on the cutting-room floor or it will be followed up in a future episode.
 
An upvote for me. No bad episodes so far
They finally acknowledged the universal translator!
Isaac was very Data like in this episode.
The kids throwing something at Isaac's head, glory hole scene, the bed time story by Isaac :lol:
Macfarlane must really like Manilow
Good job by Braga writing and directing.
Next week, looks like the blue alien that caused the divorce will be back.
 
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Yaphit wasn't worried about Dr. Finn? A captor flashes his gun at his captive? Doesn't know a plate can be easily removed? Okay.

That's not me though--the episode was the weakest, but its heart was in the right place. Reminded me of the Sisko/Jake dynamic on DS9. Solid average.
 
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