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THE ORVILLE - S1, E4: "IF THE STARS SHOULD APPEAR"...

Great episode. I'd give it an "A." Good mix of comedy, drama, and impressive world-building with a nice sense of awe at their surroundings. Clearly inspired by Trek episodes such as TOS - For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky and TNG - Who Watches the Watchers among others. Fortunately it bypassed any similarity to TNG - Homeward where Picard was willing to let an entire species die just to ensure that they were not interfered with, which I'm sure they would have been grateful for after they were all dead.

On TNG there would have been a bunch of conference room soul searching and paternalistic lectures before abandoning these people to die, but I'm glad that wasn't even considered here. While the Prime Directive is a good guideline for non-interference and the right policy most of the time, what point does it serve if you're so afraid of influencing a society that you allow it to go extinct? Who are you protecting if you protect them right into non-existence based on the arrogant assumption that they're too primitive to handle or adapt to the concept of more technologically advanced cultures existing (although in this case that was just because they had forgotten their spacefaring heritage)? Zero tolerance policies that take away all logic, context, and empathy from a decision making process are useless and in many cases as disruptive or destructive as the problems they were initially created to prevent by well-meaning but shortsighted people.

This episode, sort-of, did what my idea has been, what I call "The Prime Suggestion." It just seems to amoral and sinister to be willing to let an entire civilization die off when you can do something about but, at the same time, it also makes sense if it's something that's going to happen "naturally," why interfere with the natural course of nature?

So with "The Prime Suggestion" I think of the crew weighing options and talking things out and the closest this was done in Trek was in TNG's episode "Pen Pals" where Data has accidentally communicated with an alien girl on a planet about to be destroyed through a natural fault in the planet's makeup. This is a pre-warp civilization that would have been doomed had the Enterprise not been nearby. Picard grumbles at Data a bit over his violation(s) of the Prime Directive but when Picard gets emotionally pulled into the plight of the people on the planet he gathers the senior officers in his quarters and they talk about things and what to do.

I think this is the way it should go, things should be taken on a case-by-case situation on whether or not stepping in is called for or if nature should be allowed to take its course. In the case of this episode I'd say getting involved very much was called for given this particular set of circumstances.


Did Alara insinuate that she is interested in MacFarlane's character?

I see it as more of a school-girl like crush on the big, handsome, man who treats her nicely and unlike the other boys. I don't see it potentially going anywhere romantic, though I could see her stepping outside of her bounds and use her strength to "force" herself on MacFarlane in a kiss but I can't see it moving much beyond that. I suspect the "romantic focus" will be more on MacFarlane and Commander Mockingbird rebuilding their relationship.
 
I really liked the episode and it makes me think the visuals on this show compare very favorably to "Discovery" just in different way because on this show they going for a more upbeat look. As for the city am I the only one who thinks it was filmed on the "Back to the Future" lot? I swear that buidling they were going into was the courthouse.

Jason
 
"We don't mean your family any harm."

"We just shot his dad."

"... Aside from shooting your dad."

And Ed's reaction when he tried the food the Reformers gave him.

:lol::techman:
 
Regarding them reusing the jar of pickles joke, I think they are just hitting us over the head with some of these things to give brand new viewers the basic dynamics in the early episodes.
 
Regarding them reusing the jar of pickles joke, I think they are just hitting us over the head with some of these things to give brand new viewers the basic dynamics in the early episodes.

Sort of what I think, it's there for new viewers.
 
You know I'm usually able to resist the lure of the member berries but damn it this series is sending me back to my childhood every week and I guess I'm along for the ride as long as it lasts. I'm just glad at the speed at which they dialed back on the MacFarlanesque humour.
 
I think MacFarlane is building it is an affectionate "in joke" between Mercer and Alara.
I like it, because it sets a nice little rapport between them. It establishes that "will you help me open this jar of pickles?" is Mercer's go to joke when he can't get a door open and needs Alara's strength.
 
You know I'm usually able to resist the lure of the member berries but damn it this series is sending me back to my childhood every week and I guess I'm along for the ride as long as it lasts. I'm just glad at the speed at which they dialed back on the MacFarlanesque humour.

Yeah, I'm surprised how much I like this series. I wasn't expecting to like it all, I was sure MacFarlane's brand of humor would ruin it for me but, dammit, the show has charm and does take me back to the "Watching TNG Days."

The humor's still there and doesn't always land for me, but thankfully isn't as low-brow or obvious as I originally expected, and MacFarlane being a Trek fan seems to want to really do this "right" on some level or another, probably why some of his broader humor isn't there. Like, say, a gay-panic joke when he meets the Second Officer guy. (Sorry, still learning names,) Instead we get an awkward joke about bathrooms which as kind of humorous. Then later the way he reacts when he learns SOG has laid an egg and needs some paternity leave it just feels nice and genuine how he reacts warmly, grants him the leave, and congratulations on the newborn. (Then an awkward joke about consuming the next, unfertilized, egg.) But the moment in the "ready room" with the Kermit the Frog doll and all.... It was just.... Nice. Something I'm not sure I remember Trek having a scene like that since sometime in TNG's days with Picard being welcoming and inviting to someone in the RR.

The moments with the two in the alien zoo cell was good stuff, there's just some interesting, entertaining and well done stuff here and sometimes it's slightly overshadowed by lame humor.

The episode with the trial on the baby was really good and I liked the SOG having his revelation after watching Rudolph. It's that sort of stuff I like about this type of sci-fi, with aliens seeing some piece of human culture, latching onto it, and finding some deeper meaning in it. It's easy for us to pick fun at the Rudolph story about Santa being a bit of an ass and how the ending message seems to be "you're useless until your disability can help the very people who spurned you" but fir SOG to get a message about his child in it that completely changes his position on the situation is just...

Charming to see. A, to them, centuries old TV movie about a character made-up to increase customer traffic in department store inspires an alien to rethink his culture's entire way of operating! And for the show to have the guts to not have this all work out and for an entire civilization to not change because of this one incident was also pretty inspired. And I have to say it was a bit touching to see them give the baby the Rudolph plushie at the end. I mean, again, that goes back to just my liking of alien cultures taking more from human culture than there probably is. It was just.... Magical, almost.

The show has a lot of problems but, really, there's some good stand-out moments in it that makes me into it and I hope the show lasts for a while. I hope it's tepid ratings mixed with MacFarlane's FOX pull is able to keep it around. The show looks like it's "cheap" to produce, the make-up isn't all that fabulous, they're doing some model work for the effects and any CGI effects sort of stand-out, their robot is practically in a Halloween costume and swear there's some scenes that look like they're being filmed a'la FMV game. (Standing out to me is when Super Strong Security Girl is in the "ready room" vomiting we see another crewman peering into the open door, the view of the corridor behind him looks badly green-screened in.) So hopefully it'll be around for a short while.

The show has charm and I'm kind of digging it.
 
Just got the chance to watch the episode and I thoroughly enjoyed it, and it's easily the best episode. A solid combination of good humor (with only a few rough spots) and an engaging sci-fi concept, even if the take on that concept was rather simplistic. I like the concept of a self-contained eco-system bioship where the occupants forgot they were even aboard the ship (a concept I know I've seen before but I forget where), but the episode does brush away most of the complex issues of such a scenario. Issues like population growth over 2,000 years that doesn't appear to suffer from overpopulation; Mercer not appearing to consider the psychological and sociological ramifications of opening the "sunroof" to a society that's deeply religious and has no concept of night; and a rather shallow take of such a close-minded religious society. Perhaps I'm overthinking the episode for a lighthearted show, but those particular issues stood out to me immediately.

Otherwise, the episode is a lot of fun. I liked how Grayson used the premise of Friends as a defense mechanism for torture, and while it may have not been intentional, but Mercer's description of the bioship being a "giant metal turtle" made me think of Discworld. The elevator gag in particular was pretty amusing because it's such a common situation.
 
Quick blind question, as I'm planning to binge episodes 2-4 this weekend - should I watch these in production order or airing? Does it matter? Thanks..

Mark
 
That episode was stronger than the first few. It's been getting a little better about the boundaries between serious and silly, though it'd be nice if they could come up with a few plots that are a little less derivative.

They also could have stood to focus a little more on the emotional aftermath of the torture, seems like a missed opportunity to have a real emotional moment. The most frustrating thing about the show, they create these moments that should be more emotional then only explore them in the language of sitcom tropes.

If Orville could learn to have humor *and* take real genuine emotional moments seriously with gravity it could turn into a really good show.
 
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