Spoilers The Orville: New Horizons Season 3 Discussion

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by tomalak301, Jun 2, 2022.

  1. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    I think a decent Alternate Character Interpretation is the Moclans are choosing to interpret events that way because they do recognize the Kaylon threat and are looking for a face saving political measure.

    "Ooo, we hate Isaac for this and will thus blame his entire race and not our desperately needed allies."

    They were willing to break free over the krill but the Kaylon are an existential threat.
     
  2. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    Italy
    I really liked this episode, first time I 100% like one of season 3.

    It was kinda clear from the title where they were going to go, but they did it masterfully and not without a few twists, it was a fitting continuation of topa’s story.

    I feel for the characters and as much as Clyden is angry now I hope that someday he will decide to come back to his daughter.

    THAT KEY IS TOO HIGH gave me a great laugh.

    I’m a bit puzzled at the dig b-story, as there was pretty much no story at all. Still, it was interesting to see ship's operations and a few details of this particular mission.
     
  3. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2011
    I want Klyden to return as an ally of the Krill to DESTROY THE ORVILLE.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    So many reasons why that can't happen. The Krill are now led by a nationalist who is re-instilling their religious-based xenophobia and belief that the Krill are superior to all other races. Even if Teleya were to entertain working with a non-Krill to bring about the destruction of the Orville, how would Klyden contribute to that? "I lived on the ship for three years during which time I stayed in my quarters most of the time to spew bigotry of my own."

    Never mind the fact that Klyden has previously voiced disdain for non-Moclans, or more to the point, the Krill are now led by a female, and there's no way Klyden will assist a female do anything.
     
    Charles Phipps likes this.
  5. Vince A

    Vince A Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2022
    It’s like Klyden & Teleya are the humans of the Orville.
     
  6. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2010
    At least some of these alien metaphors don't act as plain substitutes, but paint a role reversal of sorts, thus do serve a purpose of switching the our perspective a bit. I like that side of it. We've seen, in a strange way, what vile bigotry against straight and cis people could look like, for one, which even wrapped in the vile Moclan misogyny still has its potential to make a point about bigotry itself, and its destructive absurdity, that a non-fictional portrayal would not. Because we're too fricking used to the latter. I hope I am not, and even I got something out of that, even if it was just gratification. And on an Earth that should have hypothetically moved forward, a realistic take may imply growing out our worst is impossible, so implying we'll remain oppressive for perpetuity is not a thing to put in an optimistic show.

    I think there's a value in also doing it that way, as evidenced by how moving this episode ended up being, and I'm even glad that instead of having the Moclans be the backward holdover in the Planetary Union that refuses to move forward (which would still be an awkward alien metaphor), their not usual and somewhat secret form of bigotry is unique to their culture and species, and in a way alien to both us the audience, all of us, and the in-universe Union leadership. (And that was born out of the dumbest joke in the opening episode, “male-only” species was such a self-contradiction, so either way they've grown out of their past ridiculousness with this episode.).

    But no question that odd alien takes should be there as a complement to real representation, not replacing it completely, and the show should show the Earth has moved forward overtly. If you use real people around you as sources of inspiration to do your story, no matter how good, have the courtesy of including them who helped your perspective. If the rest of the Planetary Union is good, show it. Don't just tell us about it, let alone just imply it. You can do two things at the same time. Did Admiral Howland have a trans daughter to go home to she had to betray to protect the fragile Union, in a way nobody around her had in centuries? Nobody else from that meeting had someone to look odd at afterwards, friend, colleague, spouse?

    But the show hasn't ended yet.
     
    Commander Troi and Vince A like this.
  7. matthunter

    matthunter Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Great Britain
    The problem is, by making the Moclans the military powerhouse of the Union, it sends the unfortunate message that only backward, bigoted assholes are actually any use in a fight.

    Trek started getting this way with needing the Klingons to prop up Starfleet every time it got into a sticky situation. What happened to:

    "Then you must be prepared to fight - something Starfleet does not teach you!"

    "You may test that assumption at your convenience."

    ?

    Knowing Seth, the Moclans are likely an analogy for the US in NATO - by far the biggest stick as far as military might goes, but a bit of an embarrassment when it comes to the social values (at least living up to them - if he'd had the Moclan Constitution proclaim it was based on liberty and justice the analogy would be complete). Especially since the recent SCOTUS decisions, though Seth couldn't have known about those when filming (although managing to have the Krill ep with the abortion scene put out the week SCOTUS created Gilead means he MIGHT have precognition).
     
    Commander Troi and Vince A like this.
  8. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    Italy
    more like that strength stands in unity. The union needs the Moclans and the Moclans need the union. And, in fact, the previous episode resonated similarly about the Krill.
     
    Voltron64, Commander Troi and Vince A like this.
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    Watching episode 2. Guess the writers' random number generator determined they would do Identity Crisis this week, crossed with the Borg.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    Saw the preview for the next episode. Looks like they're doing the "time travel to prevent the apocalypse" thing.
     
  11. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I like this more subtle approach. You don't win anyone over or even make them think about their point by constantly hitting them over their heads with "the message". This story worked so well exactly because an allegory was used. Thought provoking storytelling, something we haven't seen in Star Trek ever since Enterprise went off the air.
     
    ialfan and jackoverfull like this.
  12. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    What on earth did Enterprise do that was thought provoking?
     
  13. matthunter

    matthunter Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Location:
    Great Britain
    It provoked me to think about what the writers must have been smoking.
     
  14. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I thought it tackled drug addiction and PTSD pretty well.
     
    ialfan and Bornin1980something like this.
  15. Marc

    Marc Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2003
    Location:
    Shinning Waters
    Can't remember Ent taking PTSD, but can remember DS9 doing it.
     
    Commander Troi and jackoverfull like this.
  16. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Fleet Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    The episode Home tackled Archer's PTSD following his actions in the Expanse.
     
    jackoverfull likes this.
  17. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2020
    Location:
    Italy
    third episode of season 4. Apart from that I can’t think of anything.

    Perhaps also Trip deciding to leave later in season 4.
     
  18. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 3, 2001
    Location:
    On the destruct button until the last minute!
    By "hitting them over the head with the message" you mean including actual LGBT people, right?
     
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    My first reaction is "Again?" since that's basically the plot of season 2's finale. My next reaction is
    their timing really sucks since that's also the plot for this Thursday's finale of SNW.
     
  20. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2001
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I didn't mean Enterprise in particular, but everything Trek that came out before its cancellation. But Enterprise too did many things very well. Now let's get back to The Orville!