The Orville. Anyone loving it?

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Gingerbread Demon, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    It's no different than what Bill Cosby did to women. He didn't physically pin them down. He drugged them and took away their ability to resist. The pheremone is the same.
     
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  2. kitik

    kitik Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Have we heard any hints about whether season 3 would drop all at once or stick with a weekly schedule? Could go either way with Hulu.
     
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  3. Thomas Elliot

    Thomas Elliot Commander Red Shirt

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    I think that's the problem. There was an article about 80s teen comedy films that made light of rape, sexual assault, and lack-of-consent. In Revenge of the Nerds, one of the main characters actually rapes a woman while disguised as her boyfriend. In Sixteen Candles one girl is completely drunk and her boyfriend pretty much gives her to the nerd character. To be fair, both characters end up getting drunk, but after they have sex, it's said or implied that she doesn't even remember it, but that she has a feeling that the sex was good. That's pretty messed up when you think about it. And these same type of teen comedies were mainstream and popular, and what a surprise, that Brett Kavanaugh was accused of sexual assault during that time, and his comments and behavior from those years seem very similar to what was being promoted in mainstream entertainment at the time. Boys will be boys, right?

    I disagree with that. Would it be okay to have a comedy routine based around telling racist jokes, or having marginalized people be the butt of jokes? How about a white comedian saying the n-word and employing black stereotypes into his comedy? A heterosexual comedian relentlessly mocking people because they're gay or bi?

    I do understand that "cancel culture" can go to far at times, and sometimes audiences are too sensitive. But why should comedy be the only place to say offensive things? Why can't you do it in television shows or movies? You don't have to watch those either. Why should comedians get a pass?

    Bill Cosby was making jokes about putting "Spanish Fly" in women's drinks way back in the 70s. lol at the time, right? Then we find out 20-30 years later that he really was drugging women to rape them.

    The problem is is that entertainment, regardless of whether it's comedy or not, can normalize questionable behavior and attitudes. Little kids grow up watching Family Guy and South Park and think it's totally fine to say "Jew" in a derogatory way.

    There was no Family Guy or South Park when I was a kid, and I don't think making fun of Jews, or even the issue of people being Jewish as something to mock, was a part of mainstream entertainment back then. Slurs for Jews and the associated stereotypes were completely unknown to me. Yeah, I knew about the Holocaust and even read Maus as a kid, but that was the extent of it. It wasn't until I was in my late-teens that I started to hear about Jewish stereotypes and slurs in a modern context, and even then I never used them.

    Nowadays, there's small kids of friends and relatives who've I've heard make Jew jokes and, big surprise, they're fans of Southpark and Family Guy.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  4. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I heard it well before South Park. It was rare, but I certainly was aware of it. Became more aware of it with working in retail and having to comment on rather insensitive comments by other employees.

    But, to be fair, I was also in a play about the Holocaust and studied Jewish culture more than the average high school freshman.
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    To be fair, Seth hasn't worked on Family Guy full time since like 2011. He's admitted in interviews that all he does is go in and act, he leaves everything else up to the other producers. He hasn't visited the production offices in years.

    Also, surprising me, according to IMDb he's only written 3 episodes of Family guy, the last one being in 2005.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ironically, it's probably been since then that the rape stuff has been toned down. Quagmire has become less of a rapist and more of a run of the mill sexaholic and has been given more serious stuff to do, like that time he helped defend his sister from her abusive boyfriend. Likewise, Herbert the pedophile's role has been dramatically decreased since 2011 as well.
     
  7. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    It’s a difficult question. Because if you watched South Park, the character who is anti-Jew is a sociopathic monster who hates everyone. Any reasonable person would see Cartman’s behavior as negative. But then there are those unreasonable people who will emulate it in a harmful way.

    Can you really regulate based on the behavior of the bottom 1% of humans?

    One of the two creators of South Park is Jewish. And frankly, if kids under 13 are watching South Park without parents to give context, it’s on the parents, not the show.

    I would also argue, suppressing opinions and humor outside the PC norm amplifies destructive behaviors more than allowing them does. If you think the bad guy saying “Jew” negatively causes Anti-Semitism in young kids, look at the effect of suppressing it on creating Trumpism.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
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  8. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Free of speech doesn't just mean speech I agree with.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In late 2016 the kids invited Cartman, who had of late, made way too many sexist tweets, to a remote cabin in the woods, after the "girls" at school said "If you don't stop him, we'll stop all of you".

     
  10. Thomas Elliot

    Thomas Elliot Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm fairly certain that Cartman is the most popular character from that show. Just because he's depicted in a negative fashion doesn't mean that even reasonable people don't find the character appealing. Hollywood is full of immoral characters who are stylized and romanticized in films and consequently, audiences identify with and relate to them.
    Off the top of my head:
    Tony Montana (Scarface)
    Michael Corleone (The Godfather)
    John Dillinger (Public Enemies)
    O-Dogg (Menace II Society)
    Frank White (King of New York)

    Is it really the 1% of the audience that is influenced by entertainment? I'd imagine social responsibility plays a part in determining what we deem as acceptable.

    And if he wasn't Jewish how would that make a difference? That reminds me of Milo Yiannopoulos using anti-Semitic language and fraternizing with white supremacists, but then arguing, that he can't be anti-Semitic because he's a Jew. And I noticed that his defense of anti-Semitic remarks among other bigotry, was that it was comedy and free speech.

    That's just alleviating any social responsibility the creators themselves have. Yes, parents should be more vigilant, but in a word of social media and ubiqitous internet access, that argument carries less an less weight. Not to mention how shows like South Park and Family Guy are marketed. They even have Funko POP South Park figures right next to DC and Disney ones. They used to sell all those related toys in Toys R Us.

    But how were we suppressing it when South Park has been mainstreaming anti-semitism for laughs since 1997. By the time he ran, anti-semitic jokes were already mainstream and common place on the internet.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Cartman is not the hero.
     
  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hardly. Most fans I know tend to name Randy Marsh (Stan's father) as their favourite South Park character. Back in the show's early years, I think Chef was frequently winning favourite character polls, and continued to do so until Isaac Hayes crapped on the show.

    Anyone who knows anything about South Park knows Cartman is supposed to be a horrible person, and anything he says or does is meant to be wrong. The creators have even admitted as much.
    Neither South Park nor Family Guy are marketed towards children. Both are on during adult programming times of night, and in South Park's case, a channel that is targeted at an adult audience. If toy stores are putting merchandise for these shows next to children's merchandise, that's the fault of the toy stores, not the show's nor their creators/producers.
     
  13. Thomas Elliot

    Thomas Elliot Commander Red Shirt

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    And most fans I know tend to name Cartman as their favorite character.

    Him being a horrible character has nothing to do with it. It’s a cartoon comedy show. People are going to repeat it because it’s funny.

    It has no bearing if they say that or not. What matters is what’s depicted, interpretation and the result.
    Brian DePalma’s Scarface is supposed to be a cautionary tale and yet people, especially teens, admired the character.

    Family Guy airs right after The Simpsons and Bob’s Burgers. That’s the only prime time cartoon block on network television. Of course kids are part of the intended demographics.

    Which is funny because virtually everybody in my high school was watching it and taking about when it first came out. I think it’s disingenuous for the producers and creators to claim that the show is aimed only for the 18 and older crowd.

    Yeah, because there’s no mixed messages in making TOYS featuring popular cartoon kid characters from a line that specializes in cartoon and video game characters. Come on.
     
  14. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And most of Jeff Epstien's friends think he was an awesome guy too, because he had the BEST parties.
     
  15. Kaiju

    Kaiju Admiral Admiral

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    Does the concept of the comedic anti-hero really need to be explained again?

    Cartman is funny because he's wrong. Because he's so obviously wrong. Because his reasons don't make sense, but he deludes himself in the most obvious and outrageous way that he's right. Several episodes even show out-right how delusional he is, like the episode with the fishstick joke, where he was shown to be merely in the room when Jimmy came up with it, but as the episode progresses, we see how Cartman's mind convinces him first that he was actively participating in the creation of the joke, then being Jimmy's equal, and finally that it was really his idea all along and it was Jimmy who was just claiming the credit. And through-out the episode, this behaviour is constantly pointed out by other characters as Cartman's usual MO. And while, on a superficial level, he may make fun of people of other ethnicities, religions, and basically anybody who's not himself, in context, he himself his the butt of these jokes. Because he's so obviously wrong.

    Cartman, and other comedic sociopaths, are not idolized as rolemodels. They are a tool of satire to take concepts like bigotry and show off the underlying ridiculousness of them.
     
  16. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well, no there isn't any mixed messages at all, given we are in an era where an adult action figure market exists. Indeed, Family Guy action figures even specify "Ages 13+" on the packaging, and I've seen action figures with ages as high as 17+ listed on the packaging. In the case of Funko Pops, the ones aimed at older demographics specify as much on the packaging, as indeed South Park Funko Pops do say Ages 17+ on the box. Everyone involved in the production of the show and the toys are doing their bit to make sure it's clear these are not meant for kids. If the toy stores are putting them with kids toys, that's the toy store's fault. Lodge a complaint with them, don't complain to or about the show's producers.
     
  17. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Clearly a show for kids too...
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Kaiju

    Kaiju Admiral Admiral

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    I remember quite a few toy lines based on r-rated movies from the 1980s and 90s. RoboCop, Rambo, Terminator 2, Aliens, Starship Troopers, etc.
     
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  19. Vincent van Ghoul

    Vincent van Ghoul Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Aliens toys are back at Walmart now.
     
  20. Turtletrekker

    Turtletrekker Admiral Admiral

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    Hell, Robocop and Rambo had Saturday morning cartoons.
     
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