The origin of 1701-A
- Thread starter Gorn Captain
- Start date
I'd just like to add that Starfleet wasn't really in any mood to do favors to Kirk when it assigned him to NCC-1701-A. It was Kirk's popularity amongst the billions of Earthlings whose bacon he had saved that forced Starfleet's hand. In that sense, giving Kirk an old, somewhat decrepit vessel that had recently been used as a testbed for all sorts of failure-prone modern technologies, and then claiming it was a "lovingly crafted replica", would be sweet revenge...
Timo Saloniemi
Timo Saloniemi
Is this before or after they infinitely typed out the works of Shakespeare?
As for the Ti-Ho idea, I think "Yo-Ho" would be more in keeping with the starfleet/nautical tradition.
Officer in the military receive a commission, which grants them the authority and responsibility of office. When an officer retires, he maintains that commission and can theoretically be called back in to service when needed (lots of my friends found this out the hard way when we went back to Iraq). In addition to retiring, you can resign your commission and no longer be subject to recall.
...And Worf desired the latter. Although judging by the ease with which he got back to service after his near-mutinous stint in the Klingon fleet, one is tempted to speculate that Picard never signed and forwarded the paperwork, knowing bloody well that Worf would ultimately return.
Regarding the decommissioning of ships, it used to be that this took place whenever a ship entered a lengthy period of repairs or refitting. In the 20th century, refits no longer took years upon years, and ships were kept in commission through their inactive periods. But in the 23rd and 24th centuries, Starfleet may have returned to the practice of decommissioning any ship under major repairs, and recommissioning her at the completion of the work. This would help explain the remark at the end of ST6, or the fact that some old-looking ships have had dedication plaques with curiously "recent" dates...
Timo Saloniemi
Regarding the decommissioning of ships, it used to be that this took place whenever a ship entered a lengthy period of repairs or refitting. In the 20th century, refits no longer took years upon years, and ships were kept in commission through their inactive periods. But in the 23rd and 24th centuries, Starfleet may have returned to the practice of decommissioning any ship under major repairs, and recommissioning her at the completion of the work. This would help explain the remark at the end of ST6, or the fact that some old-looking ships have had dedication plaques with curiously "recent" dates...
Timo Saloniemi
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
In the real navy, whenever a ship is taken out of commission for whatever reason, it is not uncommon to "stand down" the existing crew and reassign them and bring in an entirely NEW crew when the ship is recommissioned (if she ever is). It's not that uncommon between deployments either.
For officers, it's even more common. Real life naval officers (ANY branch's officers, for that matter) move around a lot, and you're expected to KEEP moving, either laterally through various ships/units to gain experience in a variety of situations, or up the ladder.
For a CO or senior officer to stay in one place for as the TOS crew did is UNheard of in real militaries. Of course to be fair, real military units don't go on 5 year deep deployments with no realistic possibility of releif either.
Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at on it.
Ah, thanks for that. Personally, from a common sense only standpoint, I hated that the crews stayed together so long.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
I remember at the time there was a lot of fan speculation that Kirk and crew had become somewhat INfamous at Starfleet Command (driven I think by the comics at the time).
Kirk was a maverick in a fleet that was becoming increasingly tired of mavericks. The Federation had settled down quite a bit in the 20-odd years between TOS and STIV, and Kirk's brand of "cowboy/gunboat diplomacy" was on the wane.
Detente if not outright peace with the Klingons. The Romulans disappearing back behind the Neutral Zone. It was the era of the Styles-s', Esteban-s and Harriman-s. It was the beginning of the Long Peaceful Expansion that would lead to the "mature" (some would argue smugly naieve) Federation of TNG.
Putting Kirk on an "old bucket" and turning him loose in some "safe" sector out of the way would have suited such a Starfleet's needs nicely.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
Like I said, to be fair, the "real" navy doesn't have 5-year deployments either.
I always took this to be a nod to the Next Generation. I figured he was talking about the history of the Enterprise which by this point transcended (at least) two ships, and would continue across a span of others as well.
In the next sentence he says something like "boldly going where no man--or no one--has gone before." A definite nod to TNG.
As far as the -A goes, new ship hastily re-christened, and pushed to early to service Enterprise because of Kirk's saving earth (again), as many have said before.
Timo Saloniemi[/QUOTE]
I remember at the time there was a lot of fan speculation that Kirk and crew had become somewhat INfamous at Starfleet Command (driven I think by the comics at the time).
Kirk was a maverick in a fleet that was becoming increasingly tired of mavericks. The Federation had settled down quite a bit in the 20-odd years between TOS and STIV, and Kirk's brand of "cowboy/gunboat diplomacy" was on the wane.
Detente if not outright peace with the Klingons. The Romulans disappearing back behind the Neutral Zone. It was the era of the Styles-s', Esteban-s and Harriman-s. It was the beginning of the Long Peaceful Expansion that would lead to the "mature" (some would argue smugly naieve) Federation of TNG.
Putting Kirk on an "old bucket" and turning him loose in some "safe" sector out of the way would have suited such a Starfleet's needs nicely.[/QUOTE]
Which makes perfect sense until you consider that the Starfleet CINC consented to send the Enterprise into the midst of a tense diplomatic situation and an interaction with the head of the Klingon Empire.
I remember at the time there was a lot of fan speculation that Kirk and crew had become somewhat INfamous at Starfleet Command (driven I think by the comics at the time).
Kirk was a maverick in a fleet that was becoming increasingly tired of mavericks. The Federation had settled down quite a bit in the 20-odd years between TOS and STIV, and Kirk's brand of "cowboy/gunboat diplomacy" was on the wane.
Detente if not outright peace with the Klingons. The Romulans disappearing back behind the Neutral Zone. It was the era of the Styles-s', Esteban-s and Harriman-s. It was the beginning of the Long Peaceful Expansion that would lead to the "mature" (some would argue smugly naieve) Federation of TNG.
Putting Kirk on an "old bucket" and turning him loose in some "safe" sector out of the way would have suited such a Starfleet's needs nicely.[/QUOTE]
Which makes perfect sense until you consider that the Starfleet CINC consented to send the Enterprise into the midst of a tense diplomatic situation and an interaction with the head of the Klingon Empire.
I always felt the A was a new Connie scheduled to replace the 20 year-old Enterprise anyway.
I thought that made perfect sense. You don't send your friend into an impossible situation in an inoperable starship. You send your worst enemy there.
(No, I don't think "Admiral Bob" in ST5 was Kirk's nemesis. I just think that people who hated Kirk's guts, which he had plenty, ordered Admiral Bob to send Kirk to a mission doomed to end in defeat and humiliation. By the time of ST6, Kirk had mostly redeemed himself.)
Timo Saloniemi
To add a point - its hard for me to believe that ship construction schedules, things that take capital investment, years of time, and presumably a lot of people resources, would magically be tasked to "build a new ship" in a short time due to the events of ST IV.
I'd rather think they steadily continued the refit program and this was the next one off the assembly line. After all, that Drydock didn't stay empty after WOK, correct? Nature abhors THAT vacuum as well.
Remember, Decker saying "this is an almost new Enterprise"... fits this line of thought as well.
I'd rather think they steadily continued the refit program and this was the next one off the assembly line. After all, that Drydock didn't stay empty after WOK, correct? Nature abhors THAT vacuum as well.
Remember, Decker saying "this is an almost new Enterprise"... fits this line of thought as well.
Timo:
A reasonable theory. Your guess is as good as anyone's.
I like to think of it a little differently. I like to think of Starfleet having a similar attitude toward Kirk as you describe, but with one caveat: when things get bad, they can't afford to ignore him. To paraphrase Pacino in Sea of Love, come the wet ass hour, Kirk is everyone's daddy.
You might argue that handing over the Enterprise during the V'ger crisis is an example, but the revealing moment to me is the desperation Admiral Cartwright shows when Kirk's transmission to Earth fades out in STIV. "Get him back! Get him back!"
Translation: he's our only hope! Look at my starship commanders! You think the Indian guy from Octopussy or the queen of Zamunda is going to solve this shit?!?
A reasonable theory. Your guess is as good as anyone's.
I like to think of it a little differently. I like to think of Starfleet having a similar attitude toward Kirk as you describe, but with one caveat: when things get bad, they can't afford to ignore him. To paraphrase Pacino in Sea of Love, come the wet ass hour, Kirk is everyone's daddy.
You might argue that handing over the Enterprise during the V'ger crisis is an example, but the revealing moment to me is the desperation Admiral Cartwright shows when Kirk's transmission to Earth fades out in STIV. "Get him back! Get him back!"
Translation: he's our only hope! Look at my starship commanders! You think the Indian guy from Octopussy or the queen of Zamunda is going to solve this shit?!?
Agreed.
I thought that made perfect sense. You don't send your friend into an impossible situation in an inoperable starship. You send your worst enemy there.
(No, I don't think "Admiral Bob" in ST5 was Kirk's nemesis. I just think that people who hated Kirk's guts, which he had plenty, ordered Admiral Bob to send Kirk to a mission doomed to end in defeat and humiliation. By the time of ST6, Kirk had mostly redeemed himself.)
Timo Saloniemi
That fits nicely.
I would have thought, though, that being thirteenish years later, the refit cycle on the class might have been complete. After all, you don't suppose they only had one drydock, do you?
Timo:
A reasonable theory. Your guess is as good as anyone's.
I like to think of it a little differently. I like to think of Starfleet having a similar attitude toward Kirk as you describe, but with one caveat: when things get bad, they can't afford to ignore him. To paraphrase Pacino in Sea of Love, come the wet ass hour, Kirk is everyone's daddy.
You might argue that handing over the Enterprise during the V'ger crisis is an example, but the revealing moment to me is the desperation Admiral Cartwright shows when Kirk's transmission to Earth fades out in STIV. "Get him back! Get him back!"
Translation: he's our only hope! Look at my starship commanders! You think the Indian guy from Octopussy or the queen of Zamunda is going to solve this shit?!?
I'd agree with that, too.
In a logical sense, the Connies should have still been around in some role along with the Mirandas and Excelciours. How many times were the other classes refitted and still in service?
You know, my thought is this: there were probably so many Excelsiors and Mirandas built compared to how many Constitutions were built that there were still a decent number of them in service by the time the Dominion War was beginning, and a lot more in mothballs that could be quickly reactivated for service.
When you think about it, pretty much all of the other ships we saw in action (according to backstage materials) were at least in the NCC-5xxxx-ish range, which, to me, means they were probably built in the late 2340s or early 2350s. The only ones lower that I can think of were of those two classes - and those were only in the NCC-3xxxx range, with one or two possible exceptions.
When you think about it, pretty much all of the other ships we saw in action (according to backstage materials) were at least in the NCC-5xxxx-ish range, which, to me, means they were probably built in the late 2340s or early 2350s. The only ones lower that I can think of were of those two classes - and those were only in the NCC-3xxxx range, with one or two possible exceptions.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
I remember at the time there was a lot of fan speculation that Kirk and crew had become somewhat INfamous at Starfleet Command (driven I think by the comics at the time).
Kirk was a maverick in a fleet that was becoming increasingly tired of mavericks. The Federation had settled down quite a bit in the 20-odd years between TOS and STIV, and Kirk's brand of "cowboy/gunboat diplomacy" was on the wane.
Detente if not outright peace with the Klingons. The Romulans disappearing back behind the Neutral Zone. It was the era of the Styles-s', Esteban-s and Harriman-s. It was the beginning of the Long Peaceful Expansion that would lead to the "mature" (some would argue smugly naieve) Federation of TNG.
Putting Kirk on an "old bucket" and turning him loose in some "safe" sector out of the way would have suited such a Starfleet's needs nicely.[/QUOTE]
Which makes perfect sense until you consider that the Starfleet CINC consented to send the Enterprise into the midst of a tense diplomatic situation and an interaction with the head of the Klingon Empire.[/QUOTE]
True, but consider that 1) SPOCK was the one who reccomended Kirk for the job, and 2) Kirk, with his history of hatred for Klingons at that point was the perfect patsy.
I don't think that assignment represented some sort of "rehabilitation" of Kirk's rep. Remember, they were all scheduled for formal retirement at that point. Starfleet was expecting this to be a "milk run" basically, not knowing it had "vipers in it's nest".
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