The origin of 1701-A
- Thread starter Gorn Captain
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It is quite possible that the ship they received may have been another, unknown name to us, Academy training vessel. It stands to reason that newer ships were in service for standing crews (referring to Miranda types) and the fleet was just waiting out the years left on the space frames of existing Constitution class ships. They may not have been manufacturing new ones, at this time, just improving on the internal upgrades to systems, weapons, etc.
The concept of a "standing crew" has always been an interesting one. Kirk's "this crew is due to stand down..." in TUC was always provocative. Did he mean the ship's current deployment? Seems unlikely, since McCoy was talking about retirement. Or were Kirk and some of his senior staff simply planning to retire after the end of this "one last mission" deployment that began at the end of TVH?
Scotty says "new ship." It's part of canon. It cannot be disputed. It cannot be debated. It cannot be argued. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong! Bonk, bonk on the head!
Okay, but he doesn't say brand new ship. It's new to him. Doesn't mean it's actually new, just not the ship he's been on for 30 years.
^ My previous post was meant solely as a joke.
But, in all seriousness, the amount of problems that the ship has in TFF lead me to believe that it almost has to be a new ship. I suppose it could be one that has undergone a total refit, like the Enterprise did in TMP, in order to cause all those problems. But by the time of TFF, something like, what, 20 years have passed since TMP? Wouldn't you think that by that time any surviving Constitution class ships from the TOS era would have either been refitted or retired already?
Personally, I like the theory of it being a brand new ship, built from the ground up with the intention of it being named something different. Whether you call it U.S.S. Ti-Ho or not. Then, following the incident with the whales, when Starfleet decided Kirk needed to be in command of a ship, it happened to be the one that was available and they decided to re-christen it Enterprise.
In any other scenario you're left with a ship that (a) should have the kinks already worked out of it and (b) would have had a crew of its own that got summarily dismissed to make way for Kirk and company, which seems rather unkind.
But, in all seriousness, the amount of problems that the ship has in TFF lead me to believe that it almost has to be a new ship. I suppose it could be one that has undergone a total refit, like the Enterprise did in TMP, in order to cause all those problems. But by the time of TFF, something like, what, 20 years have passed since TMP? Wouldn't you think that by that time any surviving Constitution class ships from the TOS era would have either been refitted or retired already?
Personally, I like the theory of it being a brand new ship, built from the ground up with the intention of it being named something different. Whether you call it U.S.S. Ti-Ho or not. Then, following the incident with the whales, when Starfleet decided Kirk needed to be in command of a ship, it happened to be the one that was available and they decided to re-christen it Enterprise.
In any other scenario you're left with a ship that (a) should have the kinks already worked out of it and (b) would have had a crew of its own that got summarily dismissed to make way for Kirk and company, which seems rather unkind.
Not to mention that at the end of Star Trek VI Kirk made it sound like someone else was going to get command of the Enterprise-A when they got back.
There was probably some time between the Bird of Prey landing in the Bay and the trial. Gillian was even ready to go off on a science vessel so she had time to be brought up to speed on life in the 23rd century.
I like the idea of a new ship but how does that explain the Enterprise being retired at the end of Trek 6 (with upgraded Excelsior class Enterprise-B in the next movie)?
I like the idea of a new ship but how does that explain the Enterprise being retired at the end of Trek 6 (with upgraded Excelsior class Enterprise-B in the next movie)?
Okay, new theory. The ship was ordered by Starfleet before Kirk stole the original, perhaps while Kirk was off planet during TWOK. Intended as a replacement for Enterprise, a decision confirmed by the pounding it took in TWOK. Work continued during events of TSFS and TVH but plans to name it Enterprise were put on hold or cancelled because of the charges against Kirk. Then, after he saves Earth again, ship is christened Enterprise and presented to him as a big thank you and nod to his legacy as captain.
Doesn't Mr. Scott's Guide also claim the Enterprise has transwarp drive?
Well, since "transwarp" literally means "faster then warp", could be interpreted as "anything faster then regular warp of that period", and it's logical to assume the A is faster then the Zero, then you could say it has "transwarp" capabilities.
We have no evidence to suggest that it didn't. In fact, it helps explain getting to the center of the galaxy so damn fast.
Exactly. I mean, we can infer it was just a hat-tip to TNG, but Spock talks about Valeris literally replacing him on the A. It doesn't quite make sense. Does the USN (or any other Navy) retire an entire crew like that?
Anyway, for that, among other, reasons, I like to think that the A had some experimental issues that made sure she didn't get a full life anyway. So the crew "retired" with her. Maybe Kirk's death later inspired some of them to un-retire?
Okay, new theory. The ship was ordered by Starfleet before Kirk stole the original, perhaps while Kirk was off planet during TWOK. Intended as a replacement for Enterprise, a decision confirmed by the pounding it took in TWOK. Work continued during events of TSFS and TVH but plans to name it Enterprise were put on hold or cancelled because of the charges against Kirk. Then, after he saves Earth again, ship is christened Enterprise and presented to him as a big thank you and nod to his legacy as captain.
Eh. I'd bet that NCC-2001 was going to be the new Excelsior class Enterprise.
Quote: Not to mention that at the end of Star Trek VI Kirk made it sound like someone else was going to get command of the Enterprise-A when they got back.
I guess this is true to some degree, but there was dialogue saying the ship was going to be decommisioned as well. So it seems more likely to me that Kirk was referring to another Enterprise.
I guess this is true to some degree, but there was dialogue saying the ship was going to be decommisioned as well. So it seems more likely to me that Kirk was referring to another Enterprise.
Didn't Kirk say something along the lines of "We're to be decommissioned"? I always took that to mean that the command crew was being decommissioned, not the ship. Kirk's lines about the ship being passed on to a new crew confirm that to me.
I actually wonder if they were being ambiguous on purpose here, so that the Enterprise-A could have appeared again should they have wished it, and if not then the assumption could be that the ship was retired.
In Kirk's final log, he says "This ship and her history will shortly become the care of another crew." That sounds pretty definite that Kirk saw the Enterprise-A continuing in service under another crew.
And, as has been pointed out, Spock told Valeris, "This will be my final voyage aboard this vessel as a member of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum. I intend you to replace me." Sounds very much like Spock intended Valeris to take over as his replacement on board that ship, not another ship with the same name.
OTOH, Uhura clearly says that they are to report back "to be decommissioned." Well, a ship gets decommissioned, not a crew. Even when you retire, you retain your commission as an officer. To decommission the crew would mean that Kirk would no longer hold the rank of captain, for example.
So it is a little confusing.
Still, it really makes no sense to me for the ship herself to be taken out of service. Compared to lots of other ships we've seen, including the original Enterprise, she was a very young ship. Lots of life left in her. Ultimately, the people behind Generations wanted a brand new ship for their ceremony at the beginning of the film, but I think it was a mistake. Instead of bookending the film with the two Enterprises we've come to know and love, the mothballed one and destroyed the other. Sad.
And, as has been pointed out, Spock told Valeris, "This will be my final voyage aboard this vessel as a member of her crew. Nature abhors a vacuum. I intend you to replace me." Sounds very much like Spock intended Valeris to take over as his replacement on board that ship, not another ship with the same name.
OTOH, Uhura clearly says that they are to report back "to be decommissioned." Well, a ship gets decommissioned, not a crew. Even when you retire, you retain your commission as an officer. To decommission the crew would mean that Kirk would no longer hold the rank of captain, for example.
So it is a little confusing.
Still, it really makes no sense to me for the ship herself to be taken out of service. Compared to lots of other ships we've seen, including the original Enterprise, she was a very young ship. Lots of life left in her. Ultimately, the people behind Generations wanted a brand new ship for their ceremony at the beginning of the film, but I think it was a mistake. Instead of bookending the film with the two Enterprises we've come to know and love, the mothballed one and destroyed the other. Sad.
We also have to consider the possibility of the Connies all being decommissioned as part of the peace process with the Klingons and demilitarization of Starfleet. The Connies may be symbolic of the "military" aspects of Starfleet, so the Federation decided to decommission them as a political move during the peace process. It would also allow for Excelsiors and Mirandas to be in service a century later.
On the other other hand (for those species among you with three arms), when Worf temporarily resigns to assist Gowron's inheritance of chancellorship, he tells Picard, 'I resign my commission', so take that as you will...
I think that's a likely explanation.
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