The Omega Glory

[Mr. Hengist]

Frankly, it's not your place to tell people where they can post what.

I didn't tell you where to post what.

Your entire argument is that you're defining what "legitimate criticism" is. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

It's actually you who are trying to dictate what others can/can't say. I'll say what I please, you can do the same, and the groundlings can decide for themselves.

You're also appear to be jumping to conclusions about why people don't like it. Criticizing the flag waving because is often because it feels like a lame and uncreative twist, not because people have problems with the US or its flag or what any of it represents.

But the episode wasn't "flag waving" at all. It was doing the OPPOSITE. It was pointing out the hypocrisy of American foreign policy in its conduct of the Vietnam war. (See my other post in which I quote the episode.) It was a radical and subversive message for its times and most likely one which could never have been explicitly articulated other than concealed in a s.f. script.

Hell, I'd still roll my eyes at the end of the episode if they walked in with the flag of India and Kirk read from the Ramayana because springing the parallel Earth "twist" at the end is lame-o.

That's not what you said before though.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

Indeed. "Omega Glory" doesn't really require an explanation once you view it as part of Star Trek's final season, because by that time you have already learned to think in terms of time travel, individuals hell-bent on ruling over primitives by introducing them to dangerous Earth ideas, and the best-laid plans of Klingons and men always going awry in the worst possible way.

Timo Saloniemi

You can't understand Star Trek, at all, without understanding that America was immersed in a very devisive foreign war in SouthEast Asia. And also in the Cold War. It is a creature of its times.

Numerous of the episodes used an s.f. narrative format to sneak in a political message. Numerous of the episodes dealt with the use by the Federation of less developed cultures as "proxies" in a war against Klingons or whoever.

This is what America was actually going through at the time but outright criticisms of American policy would NOT get put on prime time T.V.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Omega Glory" doesn't really require an explanation once you view it as part of Star Trek's final season

It's a second season episode.

 

[Timo]

Well, it's a failed pilot, too. But yeah.

You can't understand Star Trek, at all, without understanding that America was immersed in a very devisive foreign war in SouthEast Asia. And also in the Cold War. It is a creature of its times.

Sure I can. The episode may be full of "messages" and "meanings", but as usual, those are haphazardly plastered on or all too cleverly hidden in, leaving a colorful fantasy show whose enduring elements are those that have no connection to the time, method or incentive of its birth.

From even ten years into history, let alone forty, the "Americanisms" in the episode appear simply clownish, stereotyping 18th-20th century United States with such broad strokes that nobody can really feel offended. Political topicality is nil: Stars and Stripes serve the same function as the Swastika in "Iron Sky", pointing towards nationalism as the ultimate evil unless moderated by some humanist understanding.

Writers may huff and puff and blow their scripts full of hot air, but the audience understands the episode, in whichever way it pleases. There may theoretically be "wrong" interpretations, but those are simply the result of unsuccessful writing. Which isn't the same as unenjoyable writing.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[johnnybear]

I never really understood criticizing it on the presence of the Constitution or the Flag beyond the likelyhood of such a thing happening. But it is a sci-fi program, so I tend to give it some slack based on that criteria.

But people who criticize it because it somehow shows favoritism towards American values I think are way off base. It is no different than criticizing a British program for showing favoritism towards British way of life or a Japanese program that does the same thing. Star Trek was made primarily for American audiences, so people may as well let that criticism of it go.

Quite right, Bill!
Star Trek is an American programme and always will be and Omega Glory was written to shock the American audience! We non-Americans don't understand the significance of the constituition and the flag, unless we want to that is! Why people gripe about the Federation as America in space is beyond me! The show is supposed to be set in a future time where earth is united and seeking new worlds and new civilizations....
JB

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"Omega Glory" doesn't really require an explanation once you view it as part of Star Trek's final season

It's a second season episode.

Well, it's a failed pilot, too. But yeah.

"The Omega Glory" was not a failed pilot. You are confusing it with "Assignment: Earth".

 

[Warped9]

The original idea of "The Omega Glory" was presented along with "Mudd's Women" and "Where No Man Has Gone Before" to NBC for consideration as the second pilot. Of course, we know they chose WNMHGB.

 

[BillJ]

"The Omega Glory" was not a failed pilot. You are confusing it with "Assignment: Earth".

I think the reference was to it being one of three stories pitched by Roddenberry to NBC for the first pilot.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

But people who criticize it because it somehow shows favoritism towards American values I think are way off base. It is no different than criticizing a British program for showing favoritism towards British way of life.

Point of this thread--and you are correct. Take Dr. Who fans from other countries: rarely do you hear any whine about the majority of that series' earth-based episodes taking place in its country of origin, or bearing its sensibilities. Despite the Doctor being an ancient, time-travelling Time Lord, his every fiber and approach hails from one country.

In fact, some DW fans--fully aware of this--are also ST fans, yet they whine about the non-issue of the Constitution and so-called "Americanism" in TOG--or ST in general, yet see no such problem in Dr. Who. The absence of equal vision in all cases stinks (once again) of an anti-American position.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

"The Omega Glory" was not a failed pilot. You are confusing it with "Assignment: Earth".

I think the reference was to it being one of three stories pitched by Roddenberry to NBC for the first pilot.

Even if that was his reference, "failed" implies a lack of quality, but if that is the case, then we can say the same about another script--"Mudd's Women"--based on its status as a rejected pilot script?

 

[ToddPence]

Actually, people like Bill J and some others make me want to like this one, there's so much good in it, it's kind of like raining on my own parade to not like it because I can't quite accept the Absolutely Identical flag and Constitution that breaks it for me. It's just a matter of acceptance. Warp drive, transporters, artifical gravity are all things we just accept, but I have a hard time with identical documents. Sounds silly.

And yet you have no problem with "Bread and Circuses", a contemporary episode, which has an ABSOLUTELY IDENTICAL Roman empire with absolutely identical government statuates and religious beliefs?

 

[Mr. Hengist]

Stars and Stripes serve the same function as the Swastika

Does Godwin's Law apply here?

 

[Armored Saint]

What's important to apply here is QUOTING IN CONTEXT.

 

[Mr. Hengist]

What's important to apply here is QUOTING IN CONTEXT.

What's even more important is not insisting on injecting our personal politics into our interpretations of the motivations of the writers and producers of a 50 year old television program.

But of course, those of us who are inclined to inject our personal politics into a discussion of Star Trek TOS are probably equally inclined to inject our personal politics into discussions of anything & everything else.

"What, they used the Constitution and Declaration of Independence in Omega Glory? Don't they know Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave holders????"

Well yeah sure we know that. But, so what?

They could have used the Magna Carta to make the same point. Those noblemen in England weren't so great either, were they?

 

[plynch]

With how fast tech has advanced since Trek; and the pace at which the pace will accelerate, including human enhancement which is absent from Trek, save Geordi and the Borg; I think it is all absurd and improbable. So the flag's appearance is no more improbable than anything else in the show. I formed my opinion of this ep when I was like eight. Two thumbs up. Cloud William in '16!

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

What's important to apply here is QUOTING IN CONTEXT.

What's even more important is not insisting on injecting our personal politics into our interpretations of the motivations of the writers and producers of a 50 year old television program.

But of course, those of us who are inclined to inject our personal politics into a discussion of Star Trek TOS are probably equally inclined to inject our personal politics into discussions of anything & everything else.

"What, they used the Constitution and Declaration of Independence in Omega Glory? Don't they know Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slave holders????"

Well yeah sure we know that. But, so what?

They could have used the Magna Carta to make the same point. Those noblemen in England weren't so great either, were they?

No, but remember, to some, their interpretation of TOS is not as originally presented (i.e. understanding the historical perspective of 1967 politics--when "The Omega Glory" was produced), but formed from the spin-off era (80s-forward) where it was in fashion to condemn American government in one, broad swipe of negative stereotypes.

 

[Harvey]

"The Omega Glory" was not a failed pilot. You are confusing it with "Assignment: Earth".

I think the reference was to it being one of three stories pitched by Roddenberry to NBC for the first pilot.

Even if that was his reference, "failed" implies a lack of quality, but if that is the case, then we can say the same about another script--"Mudd's Women"--based on its status as a rejected pilot script?

Well, two things.

1. "Mudd's Women" was rejected because Stephen Kandel became ill and couldn't finish the script in time, not because of any content issues.

2. "Mudd's Women" is, in my view, pretty terrible.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

2. "Mudd's Women" is, in my view, pretty terrible.

GASP!!!!

 

[Maurice]

"Bread and Circuses" is just as bad as all the other parallel Earth stories in terms of believability, so I don't tar it for that. I maintain that it's the last minute nature of the "twist" of "The Omega Glory" that results in its being so frequently derided. As a punchline it's undeserved because it has nothing to do with the story told in the first three acts. It just gives Kirk a reason to make a speech.

 

[Timo]

To be fair, TOS plot structures where the heroes struggle for three-and-a-half acts and then discover it was all for naught and missing the mark are in fact pretty standard. Sometimes superior beings turn up, sometimes the McGuffin turns out to be a sham. In this particular episode, the surprise twist does echo the previous hijinks somewhat: a bitter struggle is capped with quotes from a document relating to a bitter struggle, and a man who walked the road paved with good intentions and chose to be a corrupt God to the struggling people is confronted with the idea that the people themselves might have done better.

Timo Saloniemi