The OFFICIAL STNG-R general discussion thread!

[bullethead]

To me it kind of has some of the telltale signs of CG, e.g. the lettering on the nacelle support has fuzzy edges which makes it look like a texture instead of painted on, and the copper ring behind the bussard collector has CGI-y shading, and some of the horizontal lines on the neck are curved more smoothly than I remember from photos of the model, making me think it's UV mapping.

I'm not entirely sure, but it does look a bit CG, but quite good CGI. If it's CG it's tons better than their TOS work. Would make me hopeful they actually have the talent now to do DS9 ...

Yeah, I think it's CGI, but it might be based on the 6 foot model. They might have scanned it and used that as the basis for building it since it looks so good and has the same kind of subtle detailing.

And keep in mind that TOS-R was trying to make it's CGI feel like VFX that would've been made in the 60s. With TNG in HD, they don't have that problem.

 

[MikeS]

I doubt we'll ever see DS9 in HD. And I say that as a huge fan of that series.

 

[Flake]

The shot of the enterprise vs the BOP is also a 3D CGI version of the enterprise - not a model.

From where do you get that idea?

Yeah the window lighting is different, and it just has that CGI look to it that I cannot put into words... the window lighting though is key because you can't change what windows are lit... it was fixed when the model was built..

I admit I am not 100% positive and I am not stating this as a fact, it just looks CGI to me... its certainly not the same element as the original shot imho.

 

[Sho]

I doubt we'll ever see DS9 in HD. And I say that as a huge fan of that series.

Yeah, yeah - discussed to death on previous pages, too. Summary: Unlikely for economical reasons, but also because DS9 made significant use of CGI in later seasons which have to be redone from scratch, the CG work on TOS-R was subpar, and we expected them not to increase their CG pipeline significantly for TNG once we learned they were going to recomposite the miniature footage.

All I'm saying is: If this Enterprise is CG, they've significantly upped their game, which might mean there's one less barrier to DS9. Granted, there's a big difference between redoing a TNG stock shot in CG and a DS9 battle sequence.

 

[Flake]

Its a very good effort though; they have done a good job with the CGI, however we are yet to see these CGI shots in motion.

 

[Pseudo]

The shot of the enterprise vs the BOP is also a 3D CGI version of the enterprise - not a model.

From where do you get that idea?

Yeah the window lighting is different, and it just has that CGI look to it that I cannot put into words... the window lighting though is key because you can't change what windows are lit... it was fixed when the model was built..

I admit I am not 100% positive and I am not stating this as a fact, it just looks CGI to me... its certainly not the same element as the original shot imho.

If they can change the display on the LCARS terminal, I suspect that it won't be beyond their abilities to add a few window lights.

 

[Sho]

If they can change the display on the LCARS terminal, I suspect that it won't be beyond their abilities to add a few window lights.

Adding window lights to a moving ship model is actually a lot more work than perspective-pasting some LCARS onto a flat surface in a locked camera shot. Certainly not impossible, but if you do it for every shot making the whole thing in CG quickly becomes faster wich means cheaper.

 

[Prologic9]

It really couldn't be anything other than CGI, there are details that simply weren't there on the physical model.

Why is it CGI? They may not have found the footage necissary to do the shot, but it's also likely they wanted to try a CGI recreation for these episodes knowing they'd likely need to do it eventually before the series is complete.

It's at least interesting in that it tells you they're willing to do it if they need to, and they have both the assets and capability of matching the shows original model footage.

 

[MikeS]

I doubt we'll ever see DS9 in HD. And I say that as a huge fan of that series.

Yeah, yeah - discussed to death on previous pages, too. Summary: Unlikely for economical reasons, but also because DS9 made significant use of CGI in later seasons which have to be redone from scratch, the CG work on TOS-R was subpar, and we expected them not to increase their CG pipeline significantly for TNG once we learned they were going to recomposite the miniature footage.

Sorry, didn't have the time to read the previous 100+ pages. I saw something about Trek HD on twitter and came hear to see what was going on. I only managed from page 110. Mine was the economic arguement.

 

[Tomalak]

I doubt we'll ever see DS9 in HD. And I say that as a huge fan of that series.

Yeah, yeah - discussed to death on previous pages, too. Summary: Unlikely for economical reasons, but also because DS9 made significant use of CGI in later seasons which have to be redone from scratch, the CG work on TOS-R was subpar, and we expected them not to increase their CG pipeline significantly for TNG once we learned they were going to recomposite the miniature footage.

All I'm saying is: If this Enterprise is CG, they've significantly upped their game, which might mean there's one less barrier to DS9. Granted, there's a big difference between redoing a TNG stock shot in CG and a DS9 battle sequence.

Mind you, DS9 didn't make extensive use of CGI until the sixth season, the Call to Arms battle was still motion control for example. I think it was the Sacrifice of Angels battle that was the first large scale use of CGI in the show. If DS9 can be remastered, DS9 shouldn't be prohibitively difficult or expensive.

 

[Sho]

Sorry, didn't have the time to read the previous 100+ pages. I saw something about Trek HD on twitter and came hear to see what was going on. I only managed from page 110. Mine was the economic arguement.

Well, I apologize for being curt . Welcome to the thread! As you can imagine this thread tends to repeat itself a lot, so it's too easy to lose patience sometimes .

 

[bullethead]

I doubt we'll ever see DS9 in HD. And I say that as a huge fan of that series.

Yeah, yeah - discussed to death on previous pages, too. Summary: Unlikely for economical reasons, but also because DS9 made significant use of CGI in later seasons which have to be redone from scratch, the CG work on TOS-R was subpar, and we expected them not to increase their CG pipeline significantly for TNG once we learned they were going to recomposite the miniature footage.

All I'm saying is: If this Enterprise is CG, they've significantly upped their game, which might mean there's one less barrier to DS9. Granted, there's a big difference between redoing a TNG stock shot in CG and a DS9 battle sequence.

Mind you, DS9 didn't make extensive use of CGI until the sixth season, the Call to Arms battle was still motion control for example. I think it was the Sacrifice of Angels battle that was the first large scale use of CGI in the show. If DS9 can be remastered, DS9 shouldn't be prohibitively difficult or expensive.

Odo's morphs were totally CG throughout the show, plus I've heard that the Wormhole was a combination of CG and practical effects. It might be a lot larder to duplicate those two effects than a lot of the stuff in TNG.

 

[Skywalker]

I still think all of the Trek series will eventually be remastered in HD, though it's VOY that will likely be the most expensive, not DS9. ENT is already HD (though IIRC its CGI was rendered at 720p instead of 1080), and while DS9 did use a lot of CGI in its final two seasons, it didn't use as much in its first five (Odo notwithstanding).

 

[Sho]

I've been thinking about Odo on and off, and I sway forth and back on ranking the difficulty of an Odo shot vs. a space shot. Certainly an Odo shot needs a lot of stuff a space shot doesn't, especially if they want to make it convincing at the increased resolution: Environment mapping, fixing shadowing and lighting in his surroundings to make him blend in, etc. OTOH, what once was hard is easy today: Modelling and animating Odo is easy to do with stock software today, and the model is significantly less detailled than a space ship. And the Odo shots are rare. Overall I think Odo is not really a critical problem next to the sheer volume of space shots.

 

[MikeS]

Sorry, didn't have the time to read the previous 100+ pages. I saw something about Trek HD on twitter and came here to see what was going on. I only managed from page 110. Mine was the economic arguement.

Well, I apologize for being curt . Welcome to the thread! As you can imagine this thread tends to repeat itself a lot, so it's too easy to lose patience sometimes .

No offence taken here. Cheers.

 

[Skywalker]

I've been thinking about Odo on and off, and I sway forth and back on ranking the difficulty of an Odo shot vs. a space shot. Certainly an Odo shot needs a lot of stuff a space shot doesn't, especially if they want to make it convincing at the increased resolution: Environment mapping, fixing shadowing and lighting in his surroundings to make him blend in, etc. OTOH, what once was hard is easy today: Modelling and animating Odo is easy to do with stock software today, and the model is significantly less detailled than a space ship. And the Odo shots are rare. Overall I think Odo is not really a critical problem next to the sheer volume of space shots.

Agreed.

 

[bullethead]

You know, seeing that new BoP and Enterprise shot makes me wonder how far they are willing to go with the CGI. Might we see a totally different Enterprise-D for Yesterday's Enterprise during the alternate timeline segments? Maybe a few Enterprises with design modifications for Parallels? Actual battle damage in BOBW?

 

[mr.peany]

First review is up with all new screenshots. Yes...that was drool hitting the keyboard. Looks amazing.

http://www.blu-raydefinition.com/re...generation-the-next-level-blu-ray-review.html

 

[Sho]

I'm counting the minutes until the first guy shows up with a "so if they can do CG like that, why did they use the model footage at all, nyah nyah" whine, btw.

<- Nasty streak today.

 

[Tomalak]

Yeah Odo obviously is there, but if TNG HD is using CGI unnecessarily, the money is presumably there to cover the morphs, which as Sho says, are not very frequent.