The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor....

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

What Hurtnell did must've been far worse.

Somehow.

Lance Parkin has a fascinating... well, I'm not going to call it a theory because it was a throwaway line on Gallifrey Base.

The Hurt Doctor fought the Time War on the side of the Daleks.

This makes a lot of sense, given what little we know of the Time War and it fits well with what we see in "The End of Time" where the Rassilon's inner circle is terrified that the Doctor has "The Moment" (why would that terrify them if the Doctor were on their side?) and the Doctor is terrified that the Gallifrey has come back. This would explain why the Time Lords resurrected the Master -- they needed a rogue element to counter the Doctor. And this would explain why the Doctor saved Davros.

If true, it may have been an alliance of convenience for the Doctor. He saw his own people go power mad (shades of the warning he offers in "Trial of a Time Lord" 13), and he made the judgment that the Daleks were the only force in the universe that could counter a militaristic Time Lord society.

And then, of course, the Doctor betrays the Daleks, using them to get him in a position where he can use The Moment and eliminate both sides.

The Doctor can still be proud of what he did to the Daleks, the Daleks can still fear and hate the Doctor.

It's a workable idea.

 

[Shazam!]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

That's silly - Eccleston said quite clearly in Dalek that "I MADE IT HAPPEN!" so they can't go around saying 'Hurtnell' isn't a true Doctor because what he did in the Time War because Eccleston was happy to admit what he did.

"I made it happen" doesn't necessrily mean "I did it."

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

What Hurtnell did must've been far worse.

Somehow.

Lance Parkin has a fascinating... well, I'm not going to call it a theory because it was a throwaway line on Gallifrey Base.

The Hurt Doctor fought the Time War on the side of the Daleks.

This makes a lot of sense, given what little we know of the Time War and it fits well with what we see in "The End of Time" where the Rassilon's inner circle is terrified that the Doctor has "The Moment" (why would that terrify them if the Doctor were on their side?) and the Doctor is terrified that the Gallifrey has come back. This would explain why the Time Lords resurrected the Master -- they needed a rogue element to counter the Doctor. And this would explain why the Doctor saved Davros.

If true, it may have been an alliance of convenience for the Doctor. He saw his own people go power mad (shades of the warning he offers in "Trial of a Time Lord" 13), and he made the judgment that the Daleks were the only force in the universe that could counter a militaristic Time Lord society.

And then, of course, the Doctor betrays the Daleks, using them to get him in a position where he can use The Moment and eliminate both sides.

The Doctor can still be proud of what he did to the Daleks, the Daleks can still fear and hate the Doctor.

It's a workable idea.

That is a very interesting idea and would certainly show a whole another angle at his grief for killing his own people and his anger at the Daleks and their inability to stay dead.

I doubt this is the actual explanation because it seems far too gutsy for the show and it would risk alienating the fanbase, both new and old.

Which raises another point. The Eleventh Doctor is horrified by The John Hurt Doctor, but can Moffat actually provide an answer that's both satisfying and doesn't manage to alienate a large portion of the fanbase?

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

He could use a memory wipe excuse though I can see tempers exploding if they used that one. That and you can say being put in his timeline made him remember.

 

[Candlelight]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

John Hurt erased the Hartnell and Troughton era master tapes.

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

I doubt this is the actual explanation because it seems far too gutsy for the show and it would risk alienating the fanbase, both new and old.

Ahem "Invasion of Time"

Which raises another point. The Eleventh Doctor is horrified by The John Hurt Doctor, but can Moffat actually provide an answer that's both satisfying and doesn't manage to alienate a large portion of the fanbase?

Judging by past history, NO!

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

John Hurt erased the Hartnell and Troughton era master tapes.

The Bastard!!!! No wonder 11 is so ashamed of him.

So, does this mean The Doctor's real name is BBC, since some of us assume the name HurtDoctor did his shameful deeds under was his real name? Or was that also just a title he took for himself?

 

[Klaus]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

^^in that line of reasoning, perhaps HurtDoctor was heroically stopped before he could wipe Monty Python as well, when Clara made a phone call to Terry Jones asking if he'd like to buy them instead???

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

He could use a memory wipe excuse though I can see tempers exploding if they used that one. That and you can say being put in his timeline made him remember.

I have a crazier idea. nuDoctor and classicDoctor are two different Time Lords. Maybe classicDoctor died in the Time War and the Time Lords used the Matrix to implant his memories into nuDoctor. That's why 11th is so angry and said "not in the name of the Doctor"

 

[Yminale]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

^^in that line of reasoning, perhaps HurtDoctor was heroically stopped before he could wipe Monty Python as well, when Clara made a phone call to Terry Jones asking if he'd like to buy them instead???

So does that make Ian Levine the MASTER *head explodes*

 

[Green Lantern]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

I'd buy that.

8th doctor regenerates into Hurt.

Hurt is the most unstable doctor yet. He leads the timelords into battle. He wrecklessly uses "The moment" and ends the time war killing trillions.

The moment has also brought back the 8th doctor. He clearly remembers time as the Hurt doctor but at the same time the hurt doctor has been erased.

One of Moffat's story trick of "It happened and didn't happen at the same time"


8th somehow regenerates again and we get Eccelston.

That's silly - Eccleston said quite clearly in Dalek that "I MADE IT HAPPEN!" so they can't go around saying 'Hurtnell' isn't a true Doctor because what he did in the Time War because Eccleston was happy to admit what he did.

Yeah, doesn't mean it has to be the same regeneration does it? And besides, if the theory is right, Hurt is still the same person.

Although personally, I hope Hurt is the Valeyard, maybe the Valeyard had two incarnations?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Isn't it possible that John Hurt is what happens to Donna if she fully DoctorDonna's out?

 

[The Wormhole]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

One of the articles I read (don't remember which one or where) said that Hurt is going to be the 9th Doctor and that everyone else is being shifted making Matt Smith the 12th Doctor. They're supposed to explain it on the show.

That was the rumour being reported before The Name of the Doctor aired. That episode made it clear that Hurt is an incarnation of the Time Lord known as the Doctor and is implied to be an incarnation that comes before the Eleventh, given he is spoken of in the past tense. And despite the final scene saying "Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor" this incarnation wasn't actually considered to be the Doctor, therefore they don't have to adjust anyone's numerical identification.

If he is indeed somewhere before Smith, than the only options are pre-Hartnell (which could tie-in with the other faces seen in Brain of Morbius) or between McGann and Eccleston (since that's the only other gap he could fit in).

He could also be between Troughton and Pertwee. We don't see the change, we only see Troughton swirling, and then Pertwee pops outta The TARDIS (In Color) in the next episode.

Troughton could've been force regenerated into HurtDoctor and been incredibly bitter they stole a Regeneration from him and gone off the deep end, dropping the name, and doing horrible things. Then when his lifetime is over he regenerates into Pertwee.

I'm more onboard with Pre-Hartnell or between 8 and 9, I'm just saying between 2 and 3 is just as possible.

Hey, I've got a hard enough time accepting the whole Season 6B thing, I'm not even going to start considering a Doctor between Troughton and Pertwee.

^^in that line of reasoning, perhaps HurtDoctor was heroically stopped before he could wipe Monty Python as well, when Clara made a phone call to Terry Jones asking if he'd like to buy them instead???

So does that make Ian Levine the MASTER *head explodes*

The Master is typically a much nicer guy. At the very least, the Delgado incarnation displayed better manners than Levine.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

I doubt this is the actual explanation because it seems far too gutsy for the show and it would risk alienating the fanbase, both new and old.

Ahem "Invasion of Time"

What do you mean by that? If you're referring to The Doctor's use of the DeMat Gun, then I would say Lance Parkin's idea is far gutsier than that.

 

[Tom]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just thinking what are they going to call Hurt's doctor in the special? not his real name obviously and not Doctor (at least 10 and 11 wont call him that). Maybe call him 9? or even something generic like the 'outcast'.. or the 'Other' (The other..hmmm lol) ?

 

[chelly]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Dark doctor

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just thinking what are they going to call Hurt's doctor in the special? not his real name obviously and not Doctor (at least 10 and 11 wont call him that) ? Maybe call him 9, or even something generic like the 'outcast'.. or the 'Other' (The other..hmmm lol) ?

I think Hurt, assuming he is a Doctor his later selves believe is unworthy of the name, will still call himself "the Doctor" because that's who he is and has, for centuries, thought of himself as.

As for what the Tennant and Smith Doctors call him, they may avoid the question altogether.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Just thinking what are they going to call Hurt's doctor in the special? not his real name obviously and not Doctor (at least 10 and 11 wont call him that) ? Maybe call him 9, or even something generic like the 'outcast'.. or the 'Other' (The other..hmmm lol) ?

I think Hurt, assuming he is a Doctor his later selves believe is unworthy of the name, will still call himself "the Doctor" because that's who he is and has, for centuries, thought of himself as.

As for what the Tennant and Smith Doctors call him, they may avoid the question altogether.

But, he did his shameful thing(s) "not under the name of The Doctor", so, I don't know that he neccessarily called himself the Doctor.

If he doesn't have his own name, 10 and 11 will probably refer to him simply as "him" or something like "The Destroyer" or "The Abomination"

 

[Green Lantern]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Maybe he's pre Hartnel and is the real first incarnation of the doctor. Maybe he was a real ass hole before he reformed and became the doctor. The tenth doctor in The End of Time stated that "I've taken lives before, convinced people to take their own, and worst I got clever" or something. Maybe he's either referring to the pre 1st doctor or 8-9th doctor. Either way, I think he's probably talking about Hurts "doctor".

Maybe he was the Valeyard before the Doctor, and in his thirteenth incarnation or whatever, changed back. Maybe the Valeyard his the Doctors true nature he keeps buried beneath himself.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: The Official Speculation Thread about John Hurt's "Secret" Doctor.

Jenna Coleman (she's dropped Louise from her stage name) says Hurt is the Doctor.