The Nostalgia Critic: Odd Numbered Trek Films

[Admiral Shran]

Finally was able to watch the Generations review. Easily his best one yet. I'm very glad he ripped on the scene of Data signing on the bridge. That scene is so cringeworthy that I can't even watch it.

Though I do have to say - the ads in the middle of the review are really getting tiresome.

 

[Kronos]

Watching this review I'm reminded of the uniform snafu from this movie, an abandoned type, two fill in types, Riker's and Geordi's don't fit.

Way to put your best foot forward.

 

[inflatabledalek]

Though I do have to say - the ads in the middle of the review are really getting tiresome.

I've found watching on my mobile skips the adverts.

 

[Andymator]

Watching this review I'm reminded of the uniform snafu from this movie, an abandoned type, two fill in types, Riker's and Geordi's don't fit.

Way to put your best foot forward.

What uniform snafu? They chose to integrate the Deep Space 9 duty uniforms as the new standard aboard the Enterprise... there were no abandoned types or fill-in types anywhere.

Geordi's was obviously a little too big for him, but Riker's was no big deal, it looked great on him.

 

[GNDN]

New uniforms were designed for the film, action-figure prototypes created and even a scene or two filmed with them before they were abandoned.

The DS9 uniforms were hardly the new standard since they were integrated rather randomly. There was always a mix of uniforms on screen (negating the idea of a 'standard') and were clearly ill-fitting since the ones used were borrowed from DS9 and not tailored for the TNG actors.

While an interesting idea, having optional styles available (akin to Kirk's wrap-around variant and Picard's grey tunic and jacket combo) it does come across appearing somewhat haphazard in the film.

 

[Andymator]

New uniforms were designed for the film, action-figure prototypes created and even a scene or two filmed with them before they were abandoned.

The DS9 uniforms were hardly the new standard since they were integrated rather randomly. There was always a mix of uniforms on screen (negating the idea of a 'standard') and were clearly ill-fitting since the ones used were borrowed from DS9 and not tailored for the TNG actors.

While an interesting idea, having optional styles available (akin to Kirk's wrap-around variant and Picard's grey tunic and jacket combo) it does come across appearing somewhat haphazard in the film.

Yeah, I'm aware of the uniforms that were initially designed for the film and then abandoned, but they don't show up anywhere in the film.

The transition to the new(er) Deep Space Nine uniforms was not random at all... crewmembers transition to these new uniforms throughout the film. The only time anybody ever changes back is Picard at the end of the film after he's dirtied up his new one in the fight with Soran.

Both Picard's and Data's new uniform were created specifically for the film, not re-used from Deep Space Nine's costumes.

The last time the Enterprise D changed to a new standard uniform in Season 3 the same kind of thing happened... there were plenty of officers still wearing the old season 1/2 type mixed in until the entire crew eventually got changed over. Apparently, for whatever reason, this is how it works on the Enterprise.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think the TNG episode "The Nth Degree" tried to "retcon" TFF to have it make a bit more sense.

In that episode Lt. Barcaly gets zapped by a space probe, becomes super-smart, and is able to modify the Enterprise-D's engines to take it to a distant location in the galaxy there they meet a non-corporeal being represented as nothing more than a glowing head. We learn that the being is a Cytherian (sp?) and they're "explorers" as well but rather than go to locations to meet new species they bring them to them.

Yep, the writers of "The Nth Degree" did intend to suggest that ST V's God entity was a rogue Cytherian.

 

[Kronos]

Watching this review I'm reminded of the uniform snafu from this movie, an abandoned type, two fill in types, Riker's and Geordi's don't fit.

Way to put your best foot forward.

What uniform snafu? They chose to integrate the Deep Space 9 duty uniforms as the new standard aboard the Enterprise... there were no abandoned types or fill-in types anywhere.

Geordi's was obviously a little too big for him, but Riker's was no big deal, it looked great on him.

Rikers sleeves aren't just rolled up, the uniform is too small.

To me it is a snafu, the first time the TNG crew is on the big screen and only a few people get a real uniform made for them because they abandoned new ones at the last possible moment, the transition a temporary fall back that's abandoned in the next movie.

 

[Trekker4747]

Jonathon Frakes had to be melted down and poured into Avery Brooks' Starfleet uniform and it shows.

 

[Amaris]

I think the TNG episode "The Nth Degree" tried to "retcon" TFF to have it make a bit more sense.

In that episode Lt. Barcaly gets zapped by a space probe, becomes super-smart, and is able to modify the Enterprise-D's engines to take it to a distant location in the galaxy there they meet a non-corporeal being represented as nothing more than a glowing head. We learn that the being is a Cytherian (sp?) and they're "explorers" as well but rather than go to locations to meet new species they bring them to them.

Yep, the writers of "The Nth Degree" did intend to suggest that ST V's God entity was a rogue Cytherian.

Really? That's pretty cool! I had wondered what kind of alien the "god" being was supposed to be.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The mixing of uniforms isn't a snafu in my opinion, but the lack of costumes fitted to the actors is.

 

[Trekker4747]

Eh, as far as Trek is concerned it's a Snafu. DS9 ran for two seasons and we never saw a crewmember were a DS9 variant uniform in all of TNG's last two seasons other than when Enterprise visited the station. Then suddenly in Generations there's an intermix of uniforms?! Not just between different characters but between the same character in different scenes! Would simply sticking with the original TNG design have been that bad? I mean had they gone with the new ones they had planned it'd create more problems, would the folks on DS9 also wear them? On Voyager? If not why?

At least First Contact solved things by giving us a great new uniform design and changing the uniforms worn on DS9 as well.

 

[Anji]

Two points:

Costume Fitting: Anybody out there done any costume design? I have. And measurements for the costumes are made far in advance of production. Dude, you literally tailor that garment to the actor. Now, if say, two or three months from he or she has been going too one too many barbecues (possibly as in the Frakes case) or decided they were going to go on a diet because they felt they were gaining weight (possibly as in the Burton case) there is no way you're going to be able to adjust those costumes. You have a budget for them and when you use up the money (which includes tailoring costs) you're outta luck.

I think in Jonathan's case he gained weight after the measurements were taken. Afterall he was in his mid to late 40 and those of in that age group know that all of a sudden the weight starts creeping up on you and you have no idea what's going on.

Costume Integration: I'm sure they had a limited budget and were trying to cut corners anyway possible. The idea of integrating the DS9 costumes may have been Jonathan's way of helping bring the movie in on budget.

 

[Andymator]

Rikers sleeves aren't just rolled up, the uniform is too small.

To me it is a snafu, the first time the TNG crew is on the big screen and only a few people get a real uniform made for them because they abandoned new ones at the last possible moment, the transition a temporary fall back that's abandoned in the next movie.

As I said, I'm completely aware of this, but the fact that you felt you needed to explain that Riker's sleeves aren't just rolled up and that his uniform is, in fact, too small kind of proves my point; it wasn't that noticable.

The uniform mixing would have been in the film regardless. They had a TON of extras on the Enterprise in the film, and a lot of them would have been in the old series costumes.

Eh, as far as Trek is concerned it's a Snafu. DS9 ran for two seasons and we never saw a crewmember were a DS9 variant uniform in all of TNG's last two seasons other than when Enterprise visited the station. Then suddenly in Generations there's an intermix of uniforms?! Not just between different characters but between the same character in different scenes! Would simply sticking with the original TNG design have been that bad? I mean had they gone with the new ones they had planned it'd create more problems, would the folks on DS9 also wear them? On Voyager? If not why?

At least First Contact solved things by giving us a great new uniform design and changing the uniforms worn on DS9 as well.

The same argument could be used for TNG's first uniform change; how come in the first two seasons of the show we didn't see one crewmember in the third season redesign? Then suddenly in the third season there's an intermix of uniforms?!

This isn't as complicated as you're making it out to be... They were clearly transitioning to the DS9 style uniforms as the standard for the entire franchise. Most likely because the producers were really pleased with the way they looked on screen, and were really displeased with the way the initial Generations ones looked.

 

[Broccoli]

Costume Fitting: Anybody out there done any costume design? I have. And measurements for the costumes are made far in advance of production. Dude, you literally tailor that garment to the actor. Now, if say, two or three months from he or she has been going too one too many barbecues (possibly as in the Frakes case) or decided they were going to go on a diet because they felt they were gaining weight (possibly as in the Burton case) there is no way you're going to be able to adjust those costumes. You have a budget for them and when you use up the money (which includes tailoring costs) you're outta luck.

I think in Jonathan's case he gained weight after the measurements were taken. Afterall he was in his mid to late 40 and those of in that age group know that all of a sudden the weight starts creeping up on you and you have no idea what's going on.

Two things wrong with your theory about Frakes fattening up and Burton slimming down.

Frakes and Burton didn't get tailored DS9 costumes. They got, essentially, hand-me-downs from the DS9 costume department. Also, when they wore their TNG costumes, they looked fine in them.

And, yes, I've worked with costume design as well.

 

[Amaris]

^ The telltale for Frakes is that his sleeves are too long. It's one thing to grow a belly, and quite another for your arms to shorten so dramatically.

Case in point:

Look at all the other costumes and how well they fit each cast member.
That is not a fitted costume, not for Jonathan Frakes, anyway.

 

[Admiral Shran]

^ Exactly. He's not wearing the "correct" costume.

However, the fact that some of the actors aren't wearing fitted costumes is the least of this movie's problems.

 

[Amaris]

^ Exactly. He's not wearing the "correct" costume.

However, the fact that some of the actors aren't wearing fitted costumes is the least of this movie's problems.

Well, yeah. Good point.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think in Jonathan's case he gained weight after the measurements were taken.

No, he wore Avery Brooke's "hero" costume.

Costume Integration: I'm sure they had a limited budget and were trying to cut corners anyway possible. The idea of integrating the DS9 costumes may have been Jonathan's way of helping bring the movie in on budget.

Frakes wasn't the director of "Generations". He directed "First Contact" and "Insurrection".

 

[Trekker4747]

Two points:

Costume Fitting: Anybody out there done any costume design? I have. And measurements for the costumes are made far in advance of production. Dude, you literally tailor that garment to the actor. Now, if say, two or three months from he or she has been going too one too many barbecues (possibly as in the Frakes case) or decided they were going to go on a diet because they felt they were gaining weight (possibly as in the Burton case) there is no way you're going to be able to adjust those costumes. You have a budget for them and when you use up the money (which includes tailoring costs) you're outta luck.

I think in Jonathan's case he gained weight after the measurements were taken. Afterall he was in his mid to late 40 and those of in that age group know that all of a sudden the weight starts creeping up on you and you have no idea what's going on.

Costume Integration: I'm sure they had a limited budget and were trying to cut corners anyway possible. The idea of integrating the DS9 costumes may have been Jonathan's way of helping bring the movie in on budget.

It is on RECORD that costumes were borrowed in Generations. Riker work Avery Brooks' Geordi wore Colm Meany's. New costumes were only tailored for Picard and Data.