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The New Movie: What Are Your Fears?

My only real fear about the reboot is that they're going to give some major character or other key element of the Star Trek universe a bit too radical a departure from its original characteristics. It only takes one such "rogue" element to stick out like a sore thumb and detract from the rest of the movie big time. The trailers depicting an emotional Spock send up more red flags than a May Day parade in Beijing.
But don't you think that a young Spock learning to control his emotions could be an interesting plot point in this film?

I agree that I don't want to see an "overly emotional" Spock in this film, but I think that one of the story lines this film will explore will be how Spock learned to control his emotions, even when being provoked (as Pine's Kirk was obviously doing in the trailer).

Young Spock can get emotional -- e.g. he broadly smiles at blue plants that make chiming noises, he gets angry when provoked by Pine's Kirk, and he frenziedly yells "THE WOMEN" when Colt and Number One disappear off the transpoter pad. Older TOS Spock has learned to control those emotions.

This is true, but I think the fear of an overemotional Spock is real, too. In this area, what I fear is a Spock that is reckless and illogical because of his emotions. For instance, we'll have to wait to see the context of the situation, but I'll be disappointed if he left his command with the entire planet of Vulcan in jeopardy only to see to his parents and the Vulcan elite. What about the needs of the many...?

To be sure, we've seen a greater range of behavior in Vulcan characters on Trek since Spock. And that makes sense. They can't all be Spock. But compared to those Vulcans, overall there was something taciturn about Spock. His demeanor conveyed an inherent dignity and even pride. The Vulcan's Vulcan. Not that he always had to have it, but it might be hard to see him without it. I just hope they didn't go overboard with his "inner struggle."
 
Young Spock can get emotional -- e.g. he broadly smiles at blue plants that make chiming noises, he gets angry when provoked by Pine's Kirk, and he frenziedly yells "THE WOMEN" when Colt and Number One disappear off the transpoter pad. Older TOS Spock has learned to control those emotions.

Also that young Vulcans can be bullies, provoking him for an emotional response, which is not very logical ("Yesteryear", ST XI).
 
I suppose if they make a new Sherlock Holmes, you don't want him wearing the cap and smoking the pipe, because it looks just like the Holmes seen in movies and tv for the last umpty-ump years?
The amazing Granada Holmes series rarely showed Holmes in the deerstalker, and then only when appropriate (e.g. on an outing in the country, not in the city or elsewhere). IIRC, the calabash was ne'er seen. Both omissions are authentic, as Conan-Doyle never specified a deerstalker nor a calabash pipe by name in the original stories. They are affectations popularized by Gillette's stage adaptation "reimaging."

Heretical old bastard.
 
Come one people, there's no reason to rag on those who may not like it. If they don't like it, this site is here for them to talk about it, just as it is for those who do.

Of course some won't like it, and some will. But just because it is new, doesn't mean fans have to like it. If it's good enough and receives generally good public reviews, a few fans who don't like it will not change the opinions of those who don't. And their views are no less valid about that movie then from those who like it, or want to like it.

My primary fear has achieved fruition already. That some fans will turn on other fans simply becasuse they don't like, or do like, where this film is going. That's the true failure of this film.
And that, at it's core, is really what MY "fear" has been for some time.

Instead of making a film that will appeal to the long-time "purist" fans, the "it could be done differently to make it better" fans, AND the "Star Track? Isn't that the show with Dr. Spock, the captain dude who boinks green chicks and uses a laser sword, and that big hairy co-pilot"... the three groups that I really can imagine seeing this film... they've made one that, is majorly off-putting to at least one (and, potentially, two!) of those groups.

Recasting? No problem, if it's done right. Characterization is more important than casting... and the casting issues that have been criticized have more to do with "can this person play this character as we've known him (or her) for 40+ years" than anything else.

Redesign? Well, nobody has ever argued that the original sets, props, costumes, makeups, etc, should be replicated without any improvements. But those improvements should be along the lines of "this is what the original was TRYING to show us but wasn't able to afford to" rather than "well, wouldn't this be kewl and different."

Canon (aka "Trek universe history")? Okay, we know it's an "alternative timeline" (or more than one?) in this film... and it's FINE for the alternative timelines to be "wrong" (as long as they make sense, internally!)... but the one you have to end up with has to be the "original" one, unless you want to risk alienating a large part of the film's audience.

What we're seeing so far seems to be the thing I feared most... a film that, instead of entertaining EVERYONE in the audience, is going to divide the audience into factions...

The "Purist" fans will bitch about everything... including things that they MIGHT have been able to accept had a few more things been left "as they were." If you take away the main anchors, every little tiny change will hurt just that much more, and this group will feel not only "abandoned" but overtly insulted.

The "Original Trek sucked, this is an improvement" crowd will latch onto everything different... even those things that, if they were being open-minded about things, they'd admit make no sense and basically suck even worse than whatever they have to complain about on TOS. And they'll attack the "purist" fans for being "closed-minded" or "inflexible" or whatever.

We've seen BOTH of those perspectives on this BBS, pretty consistently.

And, of course, the "Chewie copilots the USS Star Track" crowd will be laughing, harder than ever, at BOTH of the other groups. They might enjoy the film... or they might not. But they'll FORGET ABOUT IT immediately after seeing it, just like with any other "popcorn movie."

The result will be that Trek will not become "cool again," but will be permanently fractured, and the culture will be filled with a whole new set of "Star Trek is a joke and so are Star Trek fans" stigmas...

That, in a nutshell, is my "fear" about this movie. That's been my fear all along. And so far, it seems to be largely proving to be true.
 
Also that young Vulcans can be bullies, provoking him for an emotional response, which is not very logical ("Yesteryear", ST XI).

And the emotional response was repressed and fought against even at 5 years of age according to JTB

"When you were five years old and came home stiff-lipped, anguished, because the other boys tormented you saying that you weren't really Vulcan ... I watched you knowing that -- that inside ... that the human part of you was crying ..."

I always imagined Spock as fighting Human emotions since a young age, and certainly by the time he was 20, had them suppressed and well under control.

I agree that an uncontrolled emotional Spock is the big red flag. The actor, Quinto, will get the blame however, this emotionality is obviously written into the script. Writers always seem to want to make Vulcans into Humans emotionally and don't want to accept them as an innately colder species as they were depicted in the TOS era.

Nonetheless I have resigned myself to a recharacterized Spock, but still fear the dynamics of the Big 3 that worked so well in TOS, and which has yet to be duplicated, won't work.
 
I agree that an uncontrolled emotional Spock is the big red flag. The actor, Quinto, will get the blame however, this emotionality is obviously written into the script.

Why are you assuming his character is like that throughout the movie. Seems to me he raises his voice once. Which we've seen Nimoy's Spock do before. In "The Cage", "This Side of Paradise" (admittedly affected by spores), "Amok Time", "All Our Yesterdays"...
 
I agree that an uncontrolled emotional Spock is the big red flag. The actor, Quinto, will get the blame however, this emotionality is obviously written into the script.

Why are you assuming his character is like that throughout the movie. Seems to me he raises his voice once. Which we've seen Nimoy's Spock do before. In "The Cage", "This Side of Paradise" (admittedly affected by spores), "Amok Time", "All Our Yesterdays"...

He also shows anger and sadness in ST:VI

He cries in TMP.
 
I know there's gotta be a few fans like myself who worry that the new film is going to decimate the memories of the original show, especially of Kirk.

I don't understand this statement. Even if a new version of something sucks beyond belief, how does that "decimate" memories of something that was good? That's like saying "I had chicken cooked badly at this restaurant yesterday, every good memory I've ever had of excellent chicken dishes have been destroyed forever!". It just doesn't make sense to me.

Kirk shouldn't be portrayed as utterly reckless, cocky, and undisciplined. Kirk sometimes makes up his own rules, but in the original show, William Shatner always portrayed him as a dedicated, no nonsense, Starship commander who took his responsibilities very seriously.

That's my worry. What are some other fans' fears?

William Shatner portrayed Kirk after he had gone through some training, adventures and gained some wisdom being in the center seat. I think it's strange to assume the character of Kirk was like that from the get go. Even over the course of the series and movies from TOS we saw characters change. I personally find the story of how a hero was shaped compelling and hope it's well done.
 
My ONLY FEAR..,

... is that I'll like the movie, but will leave the theater afterward with a Complete Sense Of Loss for the Star Trek that I have spent the last forty some-odd-years, growing up with and throughly loving.

... but with the gaining of another new forty. ;)

I'm probably too old to hope for another forty years...

(I'm not so sure there is going to be another forty with this group, any way.)

And I'm pretty sure from what I've seen so far, that it's not going to appease my sense of loss for Classic Trek.

But I may enjoy it as what it will probably end up being, a short lived revival.

Unless this Production/Writing crew somehow manages to pull off a miracle (which I am really hoping for), at this point I'm still leaning on the side of "they've changed too much" for my Trek Tastes.:(
 
William Shatner portrayed Kirk after he had gone through some training, adventures and gained some wisdom being in the center seat. I think it's strange to assume the character of Kirk was like that from the get go. Even over the course of the series and movies from TOS we saw characters change. I personally find the story of how a hero was shaped compelling and hope it's well done.

He didn't get there from the get-go. Kirk's growth is the other way around. It's not from reckless to measured.

It's from nerdy, insecure, guy who got bullied at the academy, and slowly gained more and more confidence and ego until he finally became the living legend of the movies.

THAT is the problem. Kirk was never a rebel, he wasn't James Dean Kirk, he was always James T. Kirk, and maybe James R. Kirk, but certainly not James D. Kirk.

Couldn't tell if you were joking? I hope so, because...seriously?!?! You'd like this huge blockbuster movie (that you've just spent your hard earned cash to go and see) to look like an old 1960s TV series that's been repeated on tele for the last 43 years?

Me, I have loftier expectations.

You must not be going to the movie then; you must already be disappointed that the uniforms look like an old 1960s tv series, so what the point of still going?
 
He didn't get there from the get-go. Kirk's growth is the other way around. It's not from reckless to measured.

It's from nerdy, insecure, guy who got bullied at the academy, and slowly gained more and more confidence and ego until he finally became the living legend of the movies.

THAT is the problem. Kirk was never a rebel, he wasn't James Dean Kirk, he was always James T. Kirk, and maybe James R. Kirk, but certainly not James D. Kirk.

Umm... Source??
 
My biggest fear is that the movie will suck and I will have wasted literally years here posting... But, at least I've kissed a girl!

Really, I fear that we will see forced humor that fails miserably. That never works for me and almost always ruins a scene if not an entire film.
 
He didn't get there from the get-go. Kirk's growth is the other way around. It's not from reckless to measured.

It's from nerdy, insecure, guy who got bullied at the academy, and slowly gained more and more confidence and ego until he finally became the living legend of the movies.

THAT is the problem. Kirk was never a rebel, he wasn't James Dean Kirk, he was always James T. Kirk, and maybe James R. Kirk, but certainly not James D. Kirk.

Umm... Source??

Ever heard of Finnegan?
 
I'm 110% sure I'm wasting my "breath" now but anyway...

Orci: Well, they cite the quote that he was a stack of books with legs in the Academy.

The truth is that in our movie there’s nothing that precludes Kirk from being a stack of books at the Academy.

What you see is what he is before the Academy. Some would argue that him being a rebellious bar fighter in our movie is absolutely consistent with canon.
http://trekmovie.com/2009/01/15/abrams-and-orci-talk-space-battles-bar-fights-and-more/
 
What you see is what he is before the Academy. Some would argue that him being a rebellious bar fighter in our movie is absolutely consistent with canon.

Ditto non canonical novels, such as "Best Destiny" by Diane Carey and "Academy: Collision Course" by William Shatner & the Reeves-Stevens.
 
Orci: Well, they cite the quote that he was a stack of books with legs in the Academy.

The truth is that in our movie there’s nothing that precludes Kirk from being a stack of books at the Academy.

What you see is what he is before the Academy. Some would argue that him being a rebellious bar fighter in our movie is absolutely consistent with canon.

So, looks like Entertainment Weekly isn't the only source of those "Cadet to Captain in a week" rumors, eh?
 
I'm 110% sure I'm wasting my "breath" now but anyway...

Orci: Well, they cite the quote that he was a stack of books with legs in the Academy.

The truth is that in our movie there’s nothing that precludes Kirk from being a stack of books at the Academy.

What you see is what he is before the Academy. Some would argue that him being a rebellious bar fighter in our movie is absolutely consistent with canon.
http://trekmovie.com/2009/01/15/abrams-and-orci-talk-space-battles-bar-fights-and-more/

And those some would be dead wrong.
 
Orci: Well, they cite the quote that he was a stack of books with legs in the Academy.

The truth is that in our movie there’s nothing that precludes Kirk from being a stack of books at the Academy.

What you see is what he is before the Academy. Some would argue that him being a rebellious bar fighter in our movie is absolutely consistent with canon.

So, looks like Entertainment Weekly isn't the only source of those "Cadet to Captain in a week" rumors, eh?
EW wasn't the source of that rumor; it was invented right here by people who took a couple of throwaway movie-journalist quips of questionable accuracy and ran with them in directions not supported by any known facts. Besides, I'm not sure what you see in the quoted excerpt above that has anything to do with "cadet to Captain" in any specific period of time. Is there some secret code there, visible to you but which I'm not seeing?


He didn't get there from the get-go. Kirk's growth is the other way around. It's not from reckless to measured.

It's from nerdy, insecure, guy who got bullied at the academy, and slowly gained more and more confidence and ego until he finally became the living legend of the movies.

THAT is the problem. Kirk was never a rebel, he wasn't James Dean Kirk, he was always James T. Kirk, and maybe James R. Kirk, but certainly not James D. Kirk.

Umm... Source??

Ever heard of Finnegan?

This guy?

Shore_Leave_289.jpg


I think it's safe to assume that most here know who Finnegan is, and that the dialogue here from that episode:
KIRK: This is turning out to be one very unusual shore leave.
MCCOY: Well, it could have been worse.
KIRK: How?
MCCOY: You could have seen the rabbit.
KIRK: What's the matter, Bones, you getting a persecution complex?
MCCOY: Well, yeah, I'm beginning to feel a little bit picked on, if that's what you mean.
KIRK: I know the feeling very well. I had it at the Academy. An upperclassman there. One practical joke after another, and always on me. My own personal devil. A guy by the name of Finnegan...
MCCOY: And you being the very serious young...
KIRK: Serious? I'll make a confession, Bones. I was absolutely grim, which delighted Finnegan no end. He's the kind of guy to put a bowl of cold soup in your bed or a bucket of water propped on a half-open door. You never knew where he'd strike next. More tracks. Looks like your rabbit came from over there.

http://www.chakoteya.net/StarTrek/17.htm
(emphasis mine)

tells us most of what we know about Kirk during his time as underclassman at the Academy, including being the butt of numerous practical jokes played on him by Finnegan, and not one thing about what he may have been like before entering the Academy. Not one.
 
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