The new Earth-2

[Thrall]

It's all this Multiverse crap is the reason Marvel hasn't revamped their continuity ever, because it would open the box into crap like this.

Marvel has its own multiverse, you know...

Yeah but nobody really cares about The Ultimate Universe anymore. The novelty has worn off. People were hoping for a modern retelling. And, at times, it seemed to be. But what they ended up getting was a inferior universe that just wasn't has interesting.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Just stop it DC. Stop it! Nobody gives a shit that Power Girl is really Earth 3's Superman's Daughter from A Negative Energy Universe's Alternative Reality Mary Marvel Cloned from The Phantom Zone's Blue Sun Version of Lois Lane Cousin's Sister's Uncle's Former Roommate. Nobody gives a shit! Are your characters really that predictable and boring that you have to this stuff constantly? It's all this Multiverse crap is the reason Marvel hasn't revamped their continuity ever, because it would open the box into crap like this.

Cousin. And the problem was never the multiverse, which was an elegant and literary method for addressing the ageing issue.
The problem was caused by trying to eradicate the multiverse.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

It's all this Multiverse crap is the reason Marvel hasn't revamped their continuity ever, because it would open the box into crap like this.

Marvel has its own multiverse, you know...

Yeah but nobody really cares about The Ultimate Universe anymore. The novelty has worn off. People were hoping for a modern retelling. And, at times, it seemed to be. But what they ended up getting was a inferior universe that just wasn't has interesting.

The Ultimate universe is hardly the only one. I think Marvel's got as many 'verses as DC does, perhaps even more. Linky

 

[Nerys Myk]

This ins't about the TV show? Damn...

Yeah, had my hopes up too and it's just some comic.

There's a tv show? Who's playing Superman?

Wrong Earth 2 Frankly I thought the show sucked.

 

[Mike Farley]

It's all this Multiverse crap is the reason Marvel hasn't revamped their continuity ever, because it would open the box into crap like this.

Marvel has its own multiverse, you know...

And Marvel quietly revamps and recons its continuity all the time. They just don't do it in big crossover miniseries.

Marvel saves its big crossovers to set up the next years crossover which will set up the next years crossover...

 

[Thrall]

And the problem was never the multiverse, which was an elegant and literary method for addressing the ageing issue.

Crisis on Infinite Earth's was awesome, I agree. But the constant retreads of it make things more and more confusing to the point of where it's impossible to keep up. I don't give a damn anymore. It doesn't make the DCU more layered. It makes it convoluted and impossible for new fans to understand what the fuck is going on. It doesn't add to the universe in anyway.

The problem was caused by trying to eradicate the multiverse.

That was the best thing they ever did. Simplicity is sometimes a good thing. Get rid of all the confusing alternate realities and focus on a single one. But they had to bring it back, because apparently the DC characters are so stagnant, boring, and predictable that fans need to be constantly exposed to new versions of the characters in order to keep them interested.

If you really need to de-age characters and revamp your canon, then just do that. No big arcs. No convoluted stories. Just start over from scratch.

The Ultimate universe is hardly the only one. I think Marvel's got as many 'verses as DC does, perhaps even more.

Granted, but does Marvel make a big deal out of it? Many of these other realities are confined to single books. The only titles to make big deals out of it were Exiles and Excalibur, and those were kind of half-comedy books.

 

[Nerys Myk]

its not like DC had a ton books set on Earth-2 ( or any of the other Earths). Before the Crisis there were two E-2 based books being published: All-Star Squadron and Infinity Inc. Prior to that there was All-Star Comics and Wonder Woman in the mid-70s, Shazam in the Early 70s and the occasional back up feature and teams ups in various E-1 based books. Even the Freedom Fighters went to Earth-1 when they got their own book. 99% of what DC published was set on Earth-1

 

[Guy Gardener]

All the adventures in Faucet City happened on Earth 5 I believe?

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Earth-S was the Fawcett stuff, pre-Crisis. Now, there's a new Fawcett-like world in the 52-verse, Earth-5.

Geoff Johns has said that the post-52 Earths are not identical to the pre-Crisis Earths. And, going back to the original thrust of this thread, my understanding of Justice Society is that the Earth-2 Power Girl just visited is not the Earth-2 of the 52-verse. Power Girl visited the original Earth-2, not the one nearly like it created in 52.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I could care less about the Multiverse pre OR post crisis. It's a silver age hang over.

I started reading comics in the 80s after crisis and had a grand time.

I lost my interest when they wanted to bring back a continuity that hadn't existed in almost 20 years to satisfy fanboys out there who couldn't imagine anyone else as Green Lantern or Flash and missed the multiverse--which was really only there to explain continuity "problems."

The focus has become not on telling great stories but having this large epic universe with kewl history.

In the end, neither the fanboys nor readers like me are satisfied.

 

[JoeZhang]

Marvel has its own multiverse, you know...

Yeah but nobody really cares about The Ultimate Universe anymore. The novelty has worn off. People were hoping for a modern retelling. And, at times, it seemed to be. But what they ended up getting was a inferior universe that just wasn't has interesting.

The Ultimate universe is hardly the only one. I think Marvel's got as many 'verses as DC does, perhaps even more. Linky

But there is a narrative difference - alternative universes in marvel comics are places where people visit, find the avengers are dinosaurs (ZOMG!) and then they leave. They have never had the importance that the ones in the DC universe have.

DC problem is that it's currently in the grip of reactionary writers who just want to write comics that amount to "that old comic was cool" over and over again.

 

[TheArsenal]

I don't have a particular problem with the multiple Earths. Makes for interesting storytelling in the right hands. I find the Superman from Earth Whatever (32?) currently kicking around with the Justice Society to be a fascinating character.

My guess is when they decided to bring Earth 2 back into the fold they created another Earth 2 Powergirl to keep the original Earth 2 PG from migrating back home. It seems a very convoluted way to go about it, but it would be character consistent as we've been shown PG is a fish out of water dying to go back to her original Earth. Plus, it wouldn't be an Earth 2 without a PG.

In any case, so far, its just a slightly odd side bar to an otherwise good JSA story arc.

What I find murky is this anti-matter universe business piled on top of 52 different Earths. Seems a bit of overkill. And its never been clear to me whether this anti-matter universe has 52 Earths of its own. Hopefully not. And its also never been clear to me whether there is only one Crime Syndicate - one anti-matter, one from one of the 52 Earths - or not. I vaguely recall conflicting information.

 

[Mike Farley]

Earth-S was the Fawcett stuff, pre-Crisis. Now, there's a new Fawcett-like world in the 52-verse, Earth-5.

Geoff Johns has said that the post-52 Earths are not identical to the pre-Crisis Earths. And, going back to the original thrust of this thread, my understanding of Justice Society is that the Earth-2 Power Girl just visited is not the Earth-2 of the 52-verse. Power Girl visited the original Earth-2, not the one nearly like it created in 52.

Actually the opposite. PG visited the new Earth 2. The original Earth 2, the one she came from, is gone. Aspects of it are a part of the gestalt Post-Crisis Earth (comprised of Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 4, Earth s, and Earth X), but her original Earth no longer exists.

What I find murky is this anti-matter universe business piled on top of 52 different Earths. Seems a bit of overkill. And its never been clear to me whether this anti-matter universe has 52 Earths of its own. Hopefully not. And its also never been clear to me whether there is only one Crime Syndicate - one anti-matter, one from one of the 52 Earths - or not. I vaguely recall conflicting information.

I don't think there is an antimatter Multiverse. At least, it hasn't been hinted at, as far as I know.

The Crime Syndicate of America, the evil Justice League, hails from the antimatter Earth.

On the new Earth 3 we have the Crime SOCIETY of America, an evil version of the JSA.

 

[TheArsenal]

On the new Earth 3 we have the Crime SOCIETY of America, an evil version of the JSA.

Thanks for the explanation. I looked it up on Wikipedia. As you say, the Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman, Power Ring and Johnny Quick of the anti-matter universe Crime Syndicate of Amerika are completely different than the Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman, Power Ring and Johnny Quick of the Crime Society of America on Earth 3; although they are not really different at all.

Who thought that was a good idea?

 

[Nerys Myk]

On the new Earth 3 we have the Crime SOCIETY of America, an evil version of the JSA.

Thanks for the explanation. I looked it up on Wikipedia. As you say, the Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman, Power Ring and Johnny Quick of the anti-matter universe Crime Syndicate of Amerika are completely different than the Ultraman, Owlman, Superwoman, Power Ring and Johnny Quick of the Crime Society of America on Earth 3; although they are not really different at all.

Who thought that was a good idea?

Kate and Edith Tues.

 

[A beaker full of death]

Crisis on Infinite Earth's was awesome, I agree.

Not what I meant to say. I think the idea of eliminating the multi-verse was a bad one.

The problem was caused by trying to eradicate the multiverse.

That was the best thing they ever did. Simplicity is sometimes a good thing. Get rid of all the confusing alternate realities and focus on a single one.

There was nothing confusing about it. There was the old generation of heroes on Earth-2, whom we rarely saw, and the new generation on Earth-1. Plus Shazam in his own little world. It was neat and simple.

If you really need to de-age characters and revamp your canon, then just do that. No big arcs. No convoluted stories. Just start over from scratch.

That was the whole idea of Crisis. But then where do the JSA characters come from? How can there be both a Power Girl and a Supergirl, who are the same person with different dimensions?

And... Hawkman.

PG visited the new Earth 2. The original Earth 2, the one she came from, is gone.

ok, that's what I thought. But....

Aspects of it are a part of the gestalt Post-Crisis Earth (comprised of Earth 1, Earth 2, Earth 4, Earth s, and Earth X), but her original Earth no longer exists.

But according to the page I posted at the top of this thread, that Earth-2 is exactly the same as the old Earth-2 at the time it ceased to exist -- including a "recreation" of characters who survived the crisis.

uh.... right?

 

[Mike Farley]

It hasn't been made clear how close the duplication is. New Earth 2 seems fairly close to old Earth 2, at least until the original Crisis. But new Earth 3 seems fairly divergent from the pre-Crisis Earth 3.

All we know for certain, from current issues of JSA, is that the new Earth 2 is not the world Power Girl hails from. And the the new Earth 2 Superman is not the guy that killed the Anti-Monitor and later died fighting Superboy Prime. The new Earth 2 Superman is missing.

 

[A beaker full of death]

And since they totally assassinated his character when that happened anyway, we (at some point) will have Earth-2 Superman -- in essence, the original Superman -- back. And, as far as Earth 2 is concerned, nothing will have changed since we last saw its earlier version in 1986.
Now if only they'd bring back Earth-1 and lose the cluster Earth. At the very least, they should find a way to get rid of the redundant JSA.

 

[Mike Farley]

It was implied (but I can't remember where--maybe an interview) that there is a new Earth 1 out there in the new multiverse. New Earth (the current main DC universe) is not Earth 1 despite mistakenly being labeled as such in the first few issues of the SUPERMAN'S REIGN miniseries.

Ugn...the multiverse was recreated what a year and a half ago? And we STILL are just guessing at the structure of things?

I can't say that I haven't enjoyed some of the revamps and retcons, but geeze...just put good writers and artists on the books and let them run with it. Stop looking at the past and what happened to who when and start focusing on the future.

 

[roguephoenix]

it's a remake? same premise? adair still the leader of the troupe? i never saw much of the first one. this might go well with the V remake.