The New Avengers Cartoon Was Just On!

[Christopher]

My point is that the censorship in cartoons feels more like covering it up to me than it does like "leav[ing] it as part of history." They're actively misrepresenting the past to erase the Nazis from WWII, and that just feels wrong to me, whatever the justification.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

My point is that the censorship in cartoons feels more like covering it up to me than it does like "leav[ing] it as part of history." They're actively misrepresenting the past to erase the Nazis from WWII, and that just feels wrong to me, whatever the justification.

As presented here, I will agree with you. It felt especially weird to not omit it but to have it and switch it to Hydra. I think if they had just shown them storm the Red Skull's base it would have been OK. To show people "Sieg, Heil"-ing to Hydra was what was off.

Like I said above, I think the real reason is because of what would happen if Little Bobby started drawing swastikas in school. I get what you're saying but I also don't know if I want a kids' first exposure to the Nazi movement to be from DisneyXD.

 

[Python Trek]

My point is that the censorship in cartoons feels more like covering it up to me than it does like "leav[ing] it as part of history." They're actively misrepresenting the past to erase the Nazis from WWII, and that just feels wrong to me, whatever the justification.

Yeah, Christopher, you're right. The people deleting these things probably think they're doing a good thing, as in "we don't want to trivialize the Holocaust in a cartoon". But if that's the case, don't set the show in WWII at all, right?

 

[Mr Light]

So, the one hour pilot aired. I really liked it. I had just finished watching the micro-eps this morning, and they were good but just alright, since they were single character vignettes. This was much better. It was great seeing all those characters thrown up on the screen and the action scenes were gi-normous. I was concerned about the threat being credible but Graviton was nigh-invincible in this. Also, the first episode had about 50 super villain cameos which was great. I thought it was neat that they loosely adapted the first arc of New Avengers. Where's Cap though?!

 

[Christopher]

As presented here, I will agree with you. It felt especially weird to not omit it but to have it and switch it to Hydra. I think if they had just shown them storm the Red Skull's base it would have been OK. To show people "Sieg, Heil"-ing to Hydra was what was off.

Yeah, now that I've seen the short in question, I see it's more drastically revisionist than I realized.

Where's Cap though?!

From what I've heard, they're following the structure of the early issues of the Avengers comic. The preview for next week's episode indicates that it's basically the same premise as the first issue of Avengers, and the current team make-up is the same one the comic began with. Cap didn't join the team until issue 3.


I caught the premiere of this 2-parter at New York Comic-Con, but seeing it more clearly, and after seeing all the micro-episodes, makes a number of things clearer. For one thing, it's clear to me that this pilot would be difficult to follow without having seen the micro-episodes first. For instance, when I saw it the first time, before having seen the last few micros, I didn't understand that the Big House was a miniaturized prison inside the SHIELD Helicarrier. And I didn't realize the guy in the lab coat was supposed to be Hank Pym until he shrank down (I'd seen the first Ant-Man micro-ep, but I didn't remember the character design). He wasn't adequately introduced within the episode itself.

And that's a bad way of doing things. The core work should always be comprehensible on its own without needing peripheral works to explain it. Peripheral material should contain bonus information, not essential information.

 

[Nerys Myk]

BTW, Cap was defrosted in issue #4.

 

[Noname Given]

As presented here, I will agree with you. It felt especially weird to not omit it but to have it and switch it to Hydra. I think if they had just shown them storm the Red Skull's base it would have been OK. To show people "Sieg, Heil"-ing to Hydra was what was off.

Yeah, now that I've seen the short in question, I see it's more drastically revisionist than I realized.

Where's Cap though?!

From what I've heard, they're following the structure of the early issues of the Avengers comic. The preview for next week's episode indicates that it's basically the same premise as the first issue of Avengers, and the current team make-up is the same one the comic began with. Cap didn't join the team until issue 3.


I caught the premiere of this 2-parter at New York Comic-Con, but seeing it more clearly, and after seeing all the micro-episodes, makes a number of things clearer. For one thing, it's clear to me that this pilot would be difficult to follow without having seen the micro-episodes first. For instance, when I saw it the first time, before having seen the last few micros, I didn't understand that the Big House was a miniaturized prison inside the SHIELD Helicarrier. And I didn't realize the guy in the lab coat was supposed to be Hank Pym until he shrank down (I'd seen the first Ant-Man micro-ep, but I didn't remember the character design). He wasn't adequately introduced within the episode itself.

And that's a bad way of doing things. The core work should always be comprehensible on its own without needing peripheral works to explain it. Peripheral material should contain bonus information, not essential information.

The interesting thing to me was that the micro-episodes were actually 30 minutes episodes of their own - the were recut to 6 minute chinks and webcast. Over the weekend DisneyXD show the 4 episodes (each showcasing in element of the starting team); and while I understand why they did what they did for the web; had they just shown the original episodes the week leading up to 'Breakout' I think it would have been better, as the websodes order is a little disjointed; and the full episodes have some more footage here and there.

But as a fan of the 1960ies Silver Age marvel era; I'm amazed in that while they did a good job of retconning 40 years of Marvel history into all this (although I too was wondering why they reconned Hydra and the Red Skull either being the focus of WWI, or somehow in this 'universe' Hydra attempted a world takeover post WWII - going by the fact Gen. Ross was in the background as Steve Rogers took the treatments - and Ironman's line of Hydra trying to take over the world for the last 60 years - meaning the 'Hydra was was in the 1950ies<----- Yep, comic geek over analysis); they are (as other people have noted) keeping to the EXACT story structure of the 1960ies original 'Avengers' comic book; as it was a plot by Loki and the Enchantress that brought the Avengers together, and one element was the Enchantress mind controlling the Hulk to attack the group - which was similar to the aired episode.

Personally, I'll be interested to see just how far they keep with the original pogression of the 1960ies 'Avengers' starting storyline. This was done way better then Marvel's original 'Ultimates' storylines (IMO); althiough it's a nice touch that they kept Nick Fury a negro for this retcon.

They DID have a 'Thing vs Hulk' comic storyline that crossed over between 'The Avengers' and 'The Fantastic Four' comics in that era too - since Reed Richards was mentioned, I think it would be interesting to see them take a stab at it (as the FF is still my favorite Marvel team from that era)- but I kinda doubt they will.

 

[Turtletrekker]

I just read something relevant to the discussion in this thread. Apparently, Nazis and swastikas have been replaced by Hydra and its symbol in the "Captain America: Super Soldier" video game as well as the cartoon.

Also, none of the pics relesed from the movie, including the one of the Red Skull himself, shows a swastika. The Hydra symbol is seen instead of the swastika on the Skull's armpatch.

Now I'm starting to feel a little disturbed...

 

[Mr Light]

Yeah that was a WTF moment when I saw the pic of Hugo Weaving with a Hydra uniform on. I don't recall if Red Skull was with Hydra but I know he had a damn swastika on, right?

 

[Christopher]

The interesting thing to me was that the micro-episodes were actually 30 minutes episodes of their own - the were recut to 6 minute chinks and webcast. Over the weekend DisneyXD show the 4 episodes (each showcasing in element of the starting team); and while I understand why they did what they did for the web; had they just shown the original episodes the week leading up to 'Breakout' I think it would have been better, as the websodes order is a little disjointed; and the full episodes have some more footage here and there.

You're right. For TV, it would've been better to lead with these as individual half-hour episodes.

And they have added footage? Darn, I wish I'd watched them. I'd already seen all the "micro-episode" versions twice, once online and once in the initial DXD marathon. When I watched the marathon, I realized they could and should be put together into five half-hour stories. I wish they had been at the time. Well, maybe I'll eventually catch the full episodes in reruns or on DVD.

 

[Christopher]

Okay, I just watched "Some Assembly Required" again, and I've decided that, although character designer Ciro Nieli's design for Janet's hair could stand improvement, he's given her a very pretty face.

And this is probably more a question for Jack Kirby or whoever, but what's the deal with those headphone-with-antenna thingies on the side of Wasp's head? Do they serve any purpose beyond the decorative? And while we're on the subject, why does Giant-Man's cowl have antennae when there's nothing insect-themed about a giant man? I mean, it's not like they're a leftover component from the Ant-Man costume, they're actually a distinct pair of antennae unique to the Giant-Man mask. Sure, I suppose the intention of Kirby or whoever was to have some visual continuity between Pym's forms, but I have to wonder why, in-universe, a serious-minded guy like Dr. Pym would stick that frivolous pair of antennae on his Giant-Man cowl. Or, for that matter, why he'd wear a cowl at all in that form if he doesn't consider himself a superhero. I mean, the Ant-Man helmet is practical; it contains his talk-to-the-arthropods equipment and no doubt provides protection against the threats an insect-sized man would face. And its antennae are presumably a functional part of the communication apparatus. But the Giant-Man cowl is just a really big piece of cloth. With decorative antennae.

I guess maybe Janet might've designed his costumes, but then, why would he go along with it? Are they an item here? Since the show seems to be following the original comic's storylines, I assume they aren't married yet. Heck, given the way Jan was flirting with the Hulk here, I hope they aren't.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I would assume the antennae allows him to communicate with his ant buddies (and Jan) while Giant-Man. Though in later costumes they evolved into a V shape on his mask.

The Wasp often sported antennae in the early days, but they were on her forhead. Though she did have a headset and mic as a seperate element. As mentioned above. probably to communicate with Hank.

They were dating at that point in the comics. Girlfriends can be just as bad as wives in getting you to wear clothes you might not like or prefer. Jan flirts to make Hank jealous.

 

[CaptainCanada]

Yeah that was a WTF moment when I saw the pic of Hugo Weaving with a Hydra uniform on. I don't recall if Red Skull was with Hydra but I know he had a damn swastika on, right?

The Red Skull in the comics wasn't associated with HYDRA, at least in World War II, but in the movie they've created HYDRA as an elite special operations unit of the Third Reich.

Now, in the animated show, they're tailoring things to the German market (among others) - they have extremely strict rules on displaying Nazi-related imagery in society, and it's outright banned in children's cartoons.

I like the show so far. Unsurprisingly with Yost in charge, there's tons of references to recent Marvel stories in addition to the old stuff. I imagine we'll get the Winter Soldier eventually.