The Narada during Nero's impisonment?

[Jeyl]

Nero was never in prison, that was a deleted scene. Just like Martin Madden is not the first officer of the Enterprise-E and Saavik is not half-Romulan.

I love this kind of logic. It's basically saying that absolutely NOTHING HAPPENS. Nero and his crew repair their ship, and wander around in space drinking their own urine waiting for Spock. That shot of Nero laying on his klingon table? According to Garm, he's been like that for 25 years. Seriously, Nero has been laying down on that table non-stop for 25 years.

This logic involving non-canon issues never happening is just stupid. Take Countdown for instance. In the movie, Nero says he watched his home planet get destroyed. In Countdown, Nero watches his home planet get destroyed. However, because Countdown isn't canon, that never happens. So, if Nero didn't see his planet get destroyed, his character in the movie is lying. If he's lying, why does he constantly shout and yell that he did? Oh, in countdown, Nero also had a wife. Since Countdown isn't canon, Nero is AGAIN lying that he had a wife. If Nero never had a wife, why is he so angry about something that he never had?

Ya, anything that is officially endorsed by the studios that own the franchise, bears the trademark logo, is written by real writers and is as fictitious and sometimes contradicting as the real series itself, it shouldn't be taken seriously. It's almost like spending money on an education, spend a few years there, graduate, but when you're done everyone says that it didn't count simply because......it doesn't. It was a real education program, endorsed by everything that makes Education important, is taught by real paid teachers, but because it presents itself differently than other schools, it doesn't count.

This Canon debate sucks. Sure, Gene stated that everything on film should be considered canon and everything else shouldn't be, but who in their right mind would want to spend their money and waste their time on something when they're told it's totally pointless? And for that matter, who would want to waste their good talent and good time writing stories for someone else's universe when they're told it won't happen no matter how much research they do to make it work?

In conclusion, no one should have the right to say that what you pay for that's both official and endorsed doesn't count, because it's all fake like the real series, and sometimes it's a lot better.

 

[Devon]

Well, a dead franchise and what we have now isn't really all that different.

A franchise people are barely interested (Enterprise, Nemesis and their poor performances and opinions) is dead.

A franchise which people are really interested (Star Trek XI with its terrific performance and opinion) is alive. Difference.

If this is all that you love, then that's all we're ever going to get. And everything that's been done in this movie has been done before, and done waaaay better. No amount of added Nero Imprisonment will change that.

Is that your personal opinion? Or is that a fact? I want to see how you answer this.

I'm still figuring out the possible alien looking worlds from classic Trek that JJ will most likely change to make them look more like Earth the way he did Vulcan. If there's one thing you can't convince him to do is make anything look alien. He'll probably turn the Horta into a human wearing a dirty sleeping bag, a Gorn with human facial features (Oh! He did that already) and have those cool heads of the Tholians turn out to be helmets worn by humans. What else do you expect from a guy who won't make up his mind on whether Klingons have ridges or not?

Exaggerations, not worth it.

 

[Set Harth]

There's no mention of imprisonment by the Klingons, or any other kind of imprisonment.

Although we do see a clip from Rura Penthe during the mind-meld, even if it's not identified as such.

I'm still figuring out the possible alien looking worlds from classic Trek that JJ will most likely change to make them look more like Earth the way he did Vulcan.

Vulcan already looked that way in The Search for Spock.

 

[Jeyl]

Vulcan already looked that way in The Search for Spock.

Really? I don't recall seeing any blue skies on Vulcan.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

I thought the implication was clear. If Nero's crew were at Rura Penthe, then so was he - there's no way he'd abandon them. The Narada was crippled, anyway, so he couldn't have done so even if he wanted.

Nero was never in prison, that was a deleted scene. Just like Martin Madden is not the first officer of the Enterprise-E and Saavik is not half-Romulan.

I love this kind of logic. It's basically saying that absolutely NOTHING HAPPENS. Nero and his crew repair their ship, and wander around in space drinking their own urine waiting for Spock. That shot of Nero laying on his klingon table? According to Garm, he's been like that for 25 years. Seriously, Nero has been laying down on that table non-stop for 25 years.

This logic involving non-canon issues never happening is just stupid. Take Countdown for instance. In the movie, Nero says he watched his home planet get destroyed. In Countdown, Nero watches his home planet get destroyed. However, because Countdown isn't canon, that never happens. So, if Nero didn't see his planet get destroyed, his character in the movie is lying. If he's lying, why does he constantly shout and yell that he did? Oh, in countdown, Nero also had a wife. Since Countdown isn't canon, Nero is AGAIN lying that he had a wife. If Nero never had a wife, why is he so angry about something that he never had?

Ya, anything that is officially endorsed by the studios that own the franchise, bears the trademark logo, is written by real writers and is as fictitious and sometimes contradicting as the real series itself, it shouldn't be taken seriously. It's almost like spending money on an education, spend a few years there, graduate, but when you're done everyone says that it didn't count simply because......it doesn't. It was a real education program, endorsed by everything that makes Education important, is taught by real paid teachers, but because it presents itself differently than other schools, it doesn't count.

This Canon debate sucks. Sure, Gene stated that everything on film should be considered canon and everything else shouldn't be, but who in their right mind would want to spend their money and waste their time on something when they're told it's totally pointless? And for that matter, who would want to waste their good talent and good time writing stories for someone else's universe when they're told it won't happen no matter how much research they do to make it work?

In conclusion, no one should have the right to say that what you pay for that's both official and endorsed doesn't count, because it's all fake like the real series, and sometimes it's a lot better.

The problem is that the movie is supposed to be able to stand on its own. Nobody should be required to read Countdown to fill in the blanks. Nero said he watched his planet being destroyed and that he had a wife in the movie. That is established. However, there was no dialogue or action in the movie to suggest that Nero or any of his crew were ever imprisoned anywhere. For all we know from the events depicted in the movie, they just wandered around in space for 25 years. Kirk did say that the ship was never seen or heard from again after the Kelvin's destruction. Countdown isn't canon, unfortunately. Besides, most of the moviegoers who weren't Trekkies that saw this movie probably didn't read the comic nor will they (probably). Either way, the movie should be able to stand on its own merits. As far as dialogue and action depicted in the movie is concerned, Nero wasn't imprisoned anywhere, and the Narada was a "simple mining vessel" (Nero's own words).

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Vulcan already looked that way in The Search for Spock.

Really? I don't recall seeing any blue skies on Vulcan.

Hmmm. Neither do I. Vulcan has never had a blue sky in the history of Star Trek (until now).

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm still figuring out the possible alien looking worlds from classic Trek that JJ will most likely change to make them look more like Earth the way he did Vulcan.

Yes those darn blue skies that tended crop up when ever TOS shot on location.

That first one looks a bit like Vulcan,

Assuming that Vulcan is like Mars (Spock's "original" home world)

Why is the Mars sky red?
Images sent back from the Viking Mars landers in 1977 and from Pathfinder in 1997 showed a red sky seen from the Martian surface. This was due to red iron-rich dusts thrown up in the dust storms occurring from time to time on Mars. The colour of the Mars sky will change according to weather conditions. It should be blue when there have been no recent storms, but it will be darker than the earth's daytime sky because of Mars' thinner atmosphere.

 

[Set Harth]

Kirk did say that the ship was never seen or heard from again after the Kelvin's destruction.

Kirk obviously wouldn't be privy to the secrets of the Klingon Empire.

I don't recall seeing any blue skies on Vulcan.

Maybe I was thinking of certain scenes from TAS which seem close to blue. At least it can be said that the color of Vulcan's sky has changed before, as in the difference between Amok Time and TAS/STIII.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3369/3516893387_10ecbed1dd.jpg

 

[Jeyl]

Is that your personal opinion? Or is that a fact? I want to see how you answer this.

Here's my answer. You don't lose if you don't play, and I'm not playing this.

Exaggerations, not worth it.

Are they? I would love to see what Star Trek fans would have said if I told them that this 150 million dollar Star Trek movie was going to use a local Budweiser brewery as an interior set for a Starship in the same vein as such low budget classics like Space Mutiny.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Is that your personal opinion? Or is that a fact? I want to see how you answer this.

Here's my answer. You don't lose if you don't play, and I'm not playing this.

Exaggerations, not worth it.

Are they? I would love to see what Star Trek fans would have said if I told them that this 150 million dollar Star Trek movie was going to use a local Budweiser brewery as an interior set for a Starship in the same vein as such low budget classics like Space Mutiny.

I'm sure your expertise in film budgeting will be of great value to them in the future. Give them a call.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Kirk did say that the ship was never seen or heard from again after the Kelvin's destruction.

Kirk obviously wouldn't be privy to the secrets of the Klingon Empire.

Neither was anyone else apparently. Since it was never mentioned in the movie. Not even by Nero.

I don't recall seeing any blue skies on Vulcan.

Maybe I was thinking of certain scenes from TAS which seem close to blue. At least it can be said that the color of Vulcan's sky has changed before, as in the difference between Amok Time and STIII.

I'll have to watch STIII again. But I don't recall blue skies on Vulcan...ever.

 

[Set Harth]

Neither was anyone else apparently. Since it was never mentioned in the movie. Not even by Nero.

The point was that Kirk's statement doesn't disprove the possibility of the Narada having been in their possession, and in fact it could be argued that it supports that scenario.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Kirk did say that the ship was never seen or heard from again after the Kelvin's destruction.

Kirk obviously wouldn't be privy to the secrets of the Klingon Empire.

Neither was anyone else apparently. Since it was never mentioned in the movie. Not even by Nero.

I don't recall seeing any blue skies on Vulcan.

Maybe I was thinking of certain scenes from TAS which seem close to blue. At least it can be said that the color of Vulcan's sky has changed before, as in the difference between Amok Time and STIII.

I'll have to watch STIII again. But I don't recall blue skies on Vulcan...ever.

This is from IV.

If you look to the upper right you can see blue behind the yellow-orange clouds. Based the the sun and shadow in III & IV a lot of Vulcan activity happens at or between sunrise and sunset.

 

[muzzleflash]

I'm still figuring out the possible alien looking worlds from classic Trek that JJ will most likely change to make them look more like Earth the way he did Vulcan. If there's one thing you can't convince him to do is make anything look alien. He'll probably turn the Horta into a human wearing a dirty sleeping bag, a Gorn with human facial features (Oh! He did that already) and have those cool heads of the Tholians turn out to be helmets worn by humans. What else do you expect from a guy who won't make up his mind on whether Klingons have ridges or not?

Because forehead aliens of week are so much better.

 

[The Wormhole]

Don't forget your inane bitching about zeros.

That's zeroes.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm still figuring out the possible alien looking worlds from classic Trek that JJ will most likely change to make them look more like Earth the way he did Vulcan. If there's one thing you can't convince him to do is make anything look alien. He'll probably turn the Horta into a human wearing a dirty sleeping bag, a Gorn with human facial features (Oh! He did that already) and have those cool heads of the Tholians turn out to be helmets worn by humans. What else do you expect from a guy who won't make up his mind on whether Klingons have ridges or not?

Did we watch the same movie? I think we had a few alien looking aliens in the movie. You must know some odd looking humans.

 

[Jeyl]

Did we watch the same movie? I think we had a few alien looking aliens in the movie. You must know some odd looking humans.

What little aliens there were are pretty much confined to background fodder who aren't given any lines of dialogue and are mostly there to sell the idea that there are aliens, but no aliens that matter in any way.

I just think it's kind of a bummer since I appreciate the work that the make up crew did, but none of it is ever given a spotlight to work with.

And of course, for a movie that costs 150 million dollars, I expected a much cooler alien looking character than just a simple human who's only distinguishing feature is her big fake CGI eyes. I hate going back to District 9 all the time, but for a film of that size who's budget was 1/5 of Star Trek's budget, the aliens in that film were not only photo realistic, but they also conveyed emotions and you could identify with them as characters. Plus they didn't speak a word of english either.

 

[I-Am-Zim]

Neither was anyone else apparently. Since it was never mentioned in the movie. Not even by Nero.

The point was that Kirk's statement doesn't disprove the possibility of the Narada having been in their possession, and in fact it could be argued that it supports that scenario.

Nor does it prove or support it. The only reason Nero's (non-established) imprisonment on Rura Penthe was even mentioned is because it's in the deleted scenes on the DVD. If that scene weren't included on the DVD, we would not be having this discussion. There is nothing in the movie that even remotely suggests that the Narada or Nero were ever in the posession of the Klingon Empire.

 

[Set Harth]

Nor does it prove or support it.

I never said it proved anything. However, the ship never being heard from again until 2258, together with Nero's injuries and the Rura Penthe scene in the mind meld, supports imprisonment. If Nero had been waiting somewhere in deep space the entire time and had not shown up on any inhabited world, that scene would not have happened.

If that scene weren't included on the DVD, we would not be having this discussion.

It's been under discussion since well before the DVD came out.

There is nothing in the movie that even remotely suggests that the Narada or Nero were ever in the posession of the Klingon Empire.

I think what you mean is that nothing is proved. Got it. But to say nothing "remotely suggests" it is completely ridiculous. We have the strange coincidence of the Narada being crippled at the edge of Klingon space and its later destruction of the ships at Rura Penthe after never having been seen for 25 years, together with Nero's injuries and the scene in the mind-meld.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

Nero was never in prison, that was a deleted scene. Just like Martin Madden is not the first officer of the Enterprise-E and Saavik is not half-Romulan.

Oh and Quark never went to Bak'u

Actually, I see no reason why Martin Madden can't be the first officer of the Enterprise E. With Riker and Data gone, someone has to fill the position.

Um Worf maybe seeing as he was apparently back in Starfleet.

Maybe Abrams realized how stupid that was, and that's why the scene was cut, eh?

So instead we have Nero sitting idle for 25 years, despite the fact that he had the most powerful ship around and could have launched an orbital assault on Earth and Vulcan. That's equally as stupid.

Just imagine how much better this movie could have been if some thought were put into it.[/QUOTE]

Nero waited for Spock and repaired his ship. Might have gone on a few scavenging missions to find parts he could use.

Plus scouting out Vulcan's defenses to make his attack more effective.

Nero was never in prison, that was a deleted scene.

AFAIK, in the film, Uhura says that there was a transmission intercepted from a Klingon prison planet.

True, but that doesn't mean that Nero was actually a prisoner there.

He might have been trying to free some of his men who were. Of maybe just a test run on the repairs he made.

That or seeing as 24th century Romulans hated Klingons hw may have just wanted to off some Klingons before taking his revenge.

This Canon debate sucks. Sure, Gene stated that everything on film should be considered canon and everything else shouldn't be, but who in their right mind would want to spend their money and waste their time on something when they're told it's totally pointless? And for that matter, who would want to waste their good talent and good time writing stories for someone else's universe when they're told it won't happen no matter how much research they do to make it work?

Could it be that the readers don't care that it isn't Canon.

Newsflash Canon isn't the end all be all of Star Trek if the story is good I could give a rat's ass whether it is Canon or not.