The mystery of the Mintakans

[Timo]

Yes, quite so, but what we see in the episode (peeking from under those leather covers) appears to be a single-piece bow. No "joining" involved. Since that (probably) ain't cast polymer or spun fibers in the Trek reality, it could be an intact antler that loses all its advantageous tensile properties if cut to pieces and rearranged.

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x04/who_watches_the_watchers_hd_204.jpg

That is, the hunters yank this thing off the forehead of a dead beast (I'm postulating a double-ender with the nexus connecting to the skull, rather than two individual horns), and then file it smooth and into shape, to some degree, especially around the grip. But they can't alter the basic shape.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FormerLurker]

I can accept that as far as the shape of it, I guess. It conforms with how the yew longbow is made, at least. But where did what is essentially a pre-medieval society get the idea to use the wheels to make the drawstrength more powerful?

 

[Orphalesion]

Different cultures developing at a different pace?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

My interpretation is that the aspect of ditching spirituality that is a positive development is the adoption of scientific method to explain the physical world. Like, it's not raining because Jesus is crying, it's raining because of measurable and predictable meteorological phenomena. You're not sick because there are demons inside you, you're sick because of a bacterial infection.

Whether you're religious or not it's hard not to call that a positive development.

 

[Orphalesion]

But to me throwing out all aspects of spirituality along with superstitions like that equals throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Spirituality and scientific progress do not need and not always were as mutually exclusive as modern popular opinion would have it.

The problem arises when people misuse religion/spirituality/faith to further their own goals or extend their power.
But everything can be used for ill.

 

[FormerLurker]

I can accept that as far as the shape of it, I guess. It conforms with how the yew longbow is made, at least. But where did what is essentially a pre-medieval society get the idea to use the wheels to make the drawstrength more powerful?

Different cultures developing at a different pace?

I'm afraid your response is irrelevant to my question. A pre-medieval society wouldn't have the knowledge of physics to even understand how adding wheels to a bow will increase drawstrength. Regardless of how quickly they're developing. They just don't have the knowledge base yet to understand the principles behind it.

The only explanation I can come up with, and I don't agree with it, is that they really are either Romulans who never made it to Romulus, or Spock's speculation that Vulcans came from Sargon's world is right, and they also went to Mintaka and suffered some catastrophic degradation of their technological prowess. Yet somehow were able retain just enough knowledge to keep making compound bows. Like I said, I don't agree with it.

 

[Ithekro]

Legacy technology?

 

[Amaris]

I can accept that as far as the shape of it, I guess. It conforms with how the yew longbow is made, at least. But where did what is essentially a pre-medieval society get the idea to use the wheels to make the drawstrength more powerful?

Different cultures developing at a different pace?

I'm afraid your response is irrelevant to my question. A pre-medieval society wouldn't have the knowledge of physics to even understand how adding wheels to a bow will increase drawstrength. Regardless of how quickly they're developing. They just don't have the knowledge base yet to understand the principles behind it.

The only explanation I can come up with, and I don't agree with it, is that they really are either Romulans who never made it to Romulus, or Spock's speculation that Vulcans came from Sargon's world is right, and they also went to Mintaka and suffered some catastrophic degradation of their technological prowess. Yet somehow were able retain just enough knowledge to keep making compound bows. Like I said, I don't agree with it.

Or, they just developed at a different pace than our own culture. See, the beautiful thing about alien civilizations is that they don't have to play by the same rules we apply to humans.

 

[at Quark's]

But to me throwing out all aspects of spirituality along with superstitions like that equals throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Spirituality and scientific progress do not need and not always were as mutually exclusive as modern popular opinion would have it.

The problem arises when people misuse religion/spirituality/faith to further their own goals or extend their power.
But everything can be used for ill.

In fact, I think it is possible to be 'spiritual' and perfectly rational at the same time. Spirituality, imho, does not necessarily entail belief in anything super- or even preternatural.

For example, consistently considering all your actions and speech in the light of 'what good will it do all people around me/ humanity', instead of just 'how will it benefit me, screw the others', could be a very spiritual attitude to me, even
though it can also be completely rational.

I think, for example, that some of the more down-to-earth- reflective buddhists (the types that even doubt something like enlightenment actually exists, doubting everything, but still note some practices have a positive influence on their lives and therefore continue it) are veering in that direction.

It is not said the Mintakans have 'ditched all spirituality', they just 'abandoned all belief in the supernatural'.

 

[at Quark's]

Or, they just developed at a different pace than our own culture. See, the beautiful thing about alien civilizations is that they don't have to play by the same rules we apply to humans.

I'm not certain about the bow example (don't know enough about that), but it's virtually guaranteed that some inventions have prerequisite knowledge. Developing electronical computers, for example, would be impossible before the basic properties of electricity (and therefore electronics) are known.

In that respect, there's definitely a 'hierarchy' of key inventions/discoveries that simply cannot be reversed. Of course, there's significant 'freedom' around that (no culture is 'obliged' to discover anything, after all).

 

[Timo]

A pre-medieval society wouldn't have the knowledge of physics to even understand how adding wheels to a bow will increase drawstrength. Regardless of how quickly they're developing. They just don't have the knowledge base yet to understand the principles behind it.

That depends solely on what the society would be doing for a living. "Pre-medieval" ones in our reality had different requirements in so many aspects of life: some developed complex literature while others didn't even bother with writing, some mastered steel and concrete while others found iron and stone more to their liking, yet both could build cities and societies of similar extent and complexity.

Would the Mintakans do a lot of pulling? They have seas, so the concept of stevedoring might drive the development of efficient cranes. There's no evidence of overland traffic, certainly not of the type based on wheels and roads, and the local masonry seems to be based on pebbles... But OTOH there is advanced metallurgy in evidence, calling for some logistics:

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x04/who_watches_the_watchers_hd_199.jpg

It's not yer "average" Terran culture from before the invention of the pulley, it's an alien mixture driven by alien requirements. And it's a community with plenty of free time for idle experimentation...

What piques my curiosity now is where they obtain the fiber for the string in that bow. In that arid environment, we see little evidence of either obviously suitable plants or cattle. Then again, the observatory in the above pic has what looks like leather walls.

Timo Saloniemi