The mystery of Jose's peppers...

[Ragitsu]

Why...do you wish to make more of it than it ever was by dedicating an entire thread to the subject?

People have spun more from less. Anyhow, if a bit of levity leads to a greater insight, I consider that a success.

Details that do nothing to advance the plot can be seen as touches of naturalism in the writing. A chat about chili peppers, that comes out of nowhere, would flesh out the scene with stray info, which happens in life all the time, but writers put in on purpose to mimic life. Another example in the same episode: Kirk snacking on the bridge when he tells McCoy to take a sleeping pill.

Tarantino before Tarantino? Proto-Tarantino?

If it had not been a Latino surname, would it have been "cultural appropriation"? Asking for a friend.

Chili peppers are to be enjoyed by all...well, "all" except those individuals who dislike peppers, of course.

 

[fireproof78]

Today all history is up for a rewrite by those who understand nothing and haven’t a lick of sense or genuine ability.

So, like kings of old. Cool.

 

[M'Sharak]

Today all history is up for a rewrite by those who understand nothing and haven’t a lick of sense or genuine ability.

Just today?

 

[Ragitsu]

Just today?

Today sucks; the past is better. It's a revolutionary notion, I know .

 

[Tosk]

Just today?

Today is now and yesterday is the past. Except when yesterday was today and the day before that was the past. What's true now was true then, and tomorrow we'll all laugh (or get angry) about how naive we were before.

 

[Ragitsu]

If Deep Dish Nine - set during the late 24th century - is to be believed, tomatoes are (still?) difficult to grow; I can't imagine peppers being easier to manage with relatively primitive 23rd century technology.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The Jose/chili pepper thing served another function as well: It showed that Kirk had friends throughout the fleet who he did favors for and did favors for him. There's a similar scene in "The Conscience of the King" when he asks the Captain of the Astral Queen to let him transport the Karidian group to their next destination:

KIRK: Put me through to Captain Jon Daily of the AstraI Queen on orbit station, and put it on scramble.
UHURA [OC]: Captain Daily's on, sir.
KIRK; Jon? Jim Kirk.
DAILY [OC]: Hi, Jim.
KIRK: Can you do me a favor?
DAILY [OC]: I owe you a dozen. Just ask.

That's why it's so striking to see the well-liked Kirk's friends turning against him when he's accused of killing Ben Finney in "Court-Martial."

It's wise to think things over before quoting certain film songs from the early '80s. There's a risk of misconstruing the intent.

I know I certainly can't ever sing along to "Oliver's Army" by Elvis Costello.

 

[PCz911]

I know I certainly can't ever sing along to "Oliver's Army" by Elvis Costello.

I had to google the song and its meaning … interesting. I wasn’t previously familiar with it or what it was about … but I definitely saw the flash point term.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I had to google the song and its meaning … interesting. I wasn’t previously familiar with it or what it was about … but I definitely saw the flash point term.

Yeah. Hard to miss!

 

[Shawnster]

The way the story goes, they wanted TOS Sulu to brandish a katana in "Naked Time".

Katanas Are Just Better: Averted Trope; Sulu was originally supposed to go on his rampage with a samurai sword, but at Takei's request to do something less stereotypical, it was switched to an epee.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Recap/StarTrekS1E4TheNakedTime

Now, flash forward to the more enlightened 21st century of 2009 where Abrams Sulu uses a katana to fight off Romulans.

This discussion of Jose's chili pepper request reminded me of this. I don't recall the 09 movie being accused of using a racial or cultural stereotype.

Of course, people named Jose do eat chili peppers and people of Asian decent use katana blades.

Then there is the complaint that a blond white man played Jose Tyler. Why can't blond white men be named Jose by the 23rd century of Star Trek?

 

[fireproof78]

Now, flash forward to the more enlightened 21st century of 2009 where Abrams Sulu uses a katana to fight off Romulans.

He's still trained in fencing.

 

[Ragitsu]

The character could have just as easily been a "Ling" instead of a "Jose" and the peppers "Szechaun" instead of "Chili"; a little ham-fisted and perhaps slightly stereotypical by today's standards, but, as Mr. Brannigan pointed out, it was likely meant to indicate inclusivity (as opposed to a malicious sentiment). In any case, that line establishes that the future too - beyond the confines of the extra-special Enterprise - is multicultural (as far as humanity is concerned, anyhow).

Tarantino did not invent incidental dialogue. But he did multiply it by 12. That's why as great as they are, the second viewing is always better because you realize there is a gradual point eventually coming. The card game in BASTERDS, for example, goes down better on a repeat viewing.

Like most popular examples, it wasn't the first, but it was better implemented and/or marketed? Sounds about right. Pulp Fiction (and Reservoir Dogs, for that matter) was fortunate to become a seminal work, in that regard.

 

[MGagen]

Kids these days.

Check out Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, in the scene at the barber shop where he teaches his young friend how men (of a certain age and time) speak to each other.

There were no peppers. Kirk was delivering something else in an official capacity. José was a personal friend of his and he was needling him with an ethnic stereotype in a playful manner. It was a sign of affection. Yes, men did these things to each other back then; and no, there was no hand-wringing about it. José, no doubt, got his own licks in at Kirk's expense from time to time as well.

I know it is hard to believe in this uptight and prissy era, but I <expletive> you not...

M.

 

[Ragitsu]

José, no doubt, got his own licks in at Kirk's expense from time to time as well.

What...uh...a shipment of corn?

 

[Warped9]

Kids these days.

Check out Clint Eastwood in Gran Torino, in the scene at the barber shop where he teaches his young friend how men (of a certain age and time) speak to each other.

There were no peppers. Kirk was delivering something else in an official capacity. José was a personal friend of his and he was needling him with an ethnic stereotype in a playful manner. It was a sign of affection. Yes, men did these things to each other back then; and no, there was no hand-wringing about it. José, no doubt, got his own licks in at Kirk's expense from time to time as well.

I know it is hard to believe in this uptight and prissy era, but I <expletive> you not...

M.

Certainly illuminates the Spock/McCoy relationship. And I have seen this kind of talk first hand amongst coworkers. Indeed you can still see this kind of talk today albeit on a milder level.

Guys ribbing each other is as old as the hills.

 

[Metryq]

But the comedy wasn't in the ethnic angle. Uhura reported a query about "urgently needed supplies." Kirk put it in true perspective by revealing what those supplies are, with the assurance that the urgency got his personal attention.

"As you wish."
—The Princess Bride

 

[Warped9]

But the comedy wasn't in the ethnic angle. Uhura reported a query about "urgently needed supplies." Kirk put it in true perspective by revealing what those supplies are, with the assurance that the urgency got his personal attention.

"As you wish."
—The Princess Bride

The ribbing is still there. The supplies Kirk is referring to are not actually chilli peppers.

It’s no different than looking at a pile of work you have in front of you when you exclaim, “Man look at all this shit!” You’re not actually looking at a pile of manure…unless you’re a stable hand wherein you just might be looking at a pile of horse manure.

 

[Forbin]

We actually had sensitivity training at work, specifically telling us to NOT talk like that, even in playful ribbing to close friends, just in case a stranger overhears and becomes offended.

 

[Ragitsu]

We actually had sensitivity training at work, specifically telling us to NOT talk like that, even in playful ribbing to close friends, just in case a stranger overhears and becomes offended.

Holy cow, you inadvertently preempted my response to Warped9. I was going to ask "McCoy's banter towards Spock may be acceptable because of their familiarity with each other, but what if a random Vulcan happened to be nearby?"

 

[Warped9]

We actually had sensitivity training at work, specifically telling us to NOT talk like that, even in playful ribbing to close friends, just in case a stranger overhears and becomes offended.

In my book thats their fucking problem, not yours

I had someone get in my face once about this very thing. The person I was talking to was laughing and perfectly fine with our conversation. But later someone else said they thought I had been insensitive. My reply was, “No one was taking offence with what was said, except you, and in what way does this involve you?”

No answer was forthcoming.