The Most Villlainous Person In Starfleet?

[Paradon]

Dougherty wanted to help billions by getting the radiation and not kill the Baku in the process (hence the holoship), then got the Son'a to agree to using transporter tags instead of assault teams that could kill Baku. Arguably he chose the lesser of two evils by sending them after the Enterprise.

Still, not getting that radiation wasn't really threatening the Federation's existence. It's not like they depended on it.

On the other hand, Leyton was convinced that the Federation needed much stronger leadership to survive the coming Dominion attack. Even if you find his methods appalling (which I do), he did have a point. Jaresh-Inyo seemed like a well-intentioned, but ultimately weak leader, especially with war on the horizon. (Alright the blood tests Leyton cherished so much turned out to be completely ineffective in the end, but they didn't really know that at that time.)

So, Dougherty did bad things for no pressing reason. That's a tad worse IMO.

And Cartwright... I guess what makes him really look extreme is that he agreed to assassinate his own president in the end. Killing the Klingon Chancellor is one thing, since he saw the Klingons as the Federation's most dangerous enemy anyway. But even Leyton refused to kill his president. Sure, we don't know what exactly was going on behind the scenes. Maybe Chang blackmailed Cartwright to continue with the plan or something after the Gorkon assassination.

Yeah, that is bad what Dougherty did. That's what happened at the start of World War II. It looked innocent enough when they were "just" removing all the Jews and relocate them so they wouldn't mingle with what they called real Germans. At first that was just what they were going to do. It got progressively worse, til finally, Hitler did the unthinkable. He called it "The Finally Solution"! Once you start down that path, it's just going to get progressively worse. This is why war and revenge are not the solution. Killing people for revenge is not going to solve anything; it's just going to pissed off more people. Like what is going on in the Middle EAst between Israle and Palestine. If this doesn't stop, one of these days one side is going to end up getting blown to high heaven, or maybe both sides will. And more time they spend fighting each other the poorer the people because of all the tax money that goes towards the war effort. Why is it so bad to sit down and talk when nobody actually dies? I guess pride, honor and races mean more than peace. When it boils down to it, it's all about race. It's like they don't deserve your mercy if they are not like you or part of your country. Who cares what happens to the Baku! They're not one of us. Maybe God wanted it this way because we're better than they are and they deserve it.

 

[BillJ]

Dougherty wanted to help billions by getting the radiation and not kill the Baku in the process (hence the holoship), then got the Son'a to agree to using transporter tags instead of assault teams that could kill Baku. Arguably he chose the lesser of two evils by sending them after the Enterprise.

Still, not getting that radiation wasn't really threatening the Federation's existence. It's not like they depended on it.

On the other hand, Leyton was convinced that the Federation needed much stronger leadership to survive the coming Dominion attack. Even if you find his methods appalling (which I do), he did have a point. Jaresh-Inyo seemed like a well-intentioned, but ultimately weak leader, especially with war on the horizon. (Alright the blood tests Leyton cherished so much turned out to be completely ineffective in the end, but they didn't really know that at that time.)

So, Dougherty did bad things for no pressing reason. That's a tad worse IMO.

And Cartwright... I guess what makes him really look extreme is that he agreed to assassinate his own president in the end. Killing the Klingon Chancellor is one thing, since he saw the Klingons as the Federation's most dangerous enemy anyway. But even Leyton refused to kill his president. Sure, we don't know what exactly was going on behind the scenes. Maybe Chang blackmailed Cartwright to continue with the plan or something after the Gorkon assassination.

Picard comes off just as bad as Dougherty in Star Trek: Insurrection disobeying orders of a superior officer for no reason but also disobeying directives of a democratically elected government.

It's easy to dislike the "black hat" all the while ignoring the evils done by a character we do like. Let's also remember Picard has followed morally ambiguous orders before... because it's his job.

 

[Mr Silver]

I'd say that moving the Baku goes against the Prime Directive and Picard was well within the right to start an "Insurrection" so to speak.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Nobody's nominated Sisko? Well let me be the first.

 

[Mr Silver]

Nobody's nominated Sisko? Well let me be the first.

Well, he was told to get the Romulans into the war not matter what it takes by his superiors...

 

[Gary7]

What constitutes a "villain"? An uncouth person. A deliberate scoundrel or criminal. One blamed for a particular evil or difficulty. But I'd say it's more about having this as an implicit character fault, whereby a is villainous by nature, rather than having committed a "villainous act" irrespective of the intent. One can have this trait "dormant", to emerge later under the right circumstances.

Picard is not a villain. He sought to do what appeared to be the "right thing" in principle. It wasn't for his own selfish glory or profit. The same could be said of Sisko and quite a few others.

Admiral Cartwright was just outright prejudiced against the Klingons and went about a very devious way of blocking peaceful relations with the Klingons by jeopardizing the lives of living legends. That kind of prejudice runs deep. He has no respect for what Starfleet stands for. An utter disgrace. Yeah, I'd call him a villain.

Admiral Dougherty was doing something unethical for selfish reasons, scheming with a devious people to get what he wanted. He was essentially stealing a home from an entire race, rather than seeking out some kind of diplomatic compromise. (Funny about his name, as his face was later stretched like a wad of dough!). True, if things had gone as planned, nobody would have died... but it was all so corrupt. A villain.

I wouldn't say Captain Ransom was necessarily a villain... he did resort to murder of another species as a means of getting the fuel his crew needed to get home. We murder cattle for food... are we villains? I think he intentionally remained ignorant of considering that they might be sentient. Not consulting with the Ankari about communicating with the aliens for assistance was a big mistake. He went the devious route and took matters into his own hands. And continuing that deceit with the Voyager crew showed that his ethics had eroded.

Captain Tracey clearly violated the Prime Directive and murdered a security guard for no good reason (he could have easily stunned him). But I think he was more wacko than intentionally villainous.

"Admiral" Kathryn Janeway

I'd agree. Look what she did... wanting a "better outcome" for her crew and for herself, disregarding everything else to achieve that goal. Rewriting the timeline was not her decision to make. The wiping out of the Borg wasn't really the problem; it was changing what had unfolded back in the Alpha quadrant. The earlier return of the Voyager crew had significant ramifications. Who knows how many lives she affected. All because she wanted a "do over"... That's really selfish. What happened to "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one?"

 

[pimp]

Janeway.

Defo Janeway I never got over the Tuvix situation and how she dealt with it - pure evil

 

[The Wormhole]

Nobody's nominated Sisko? Well let me be the first.

Well, he was told to get the Romulans into the war not matter what it takes by his superiors...

Not exactly. Bringing the Romulans into the war, "no matter what it takes" was a promise he made to himself. All his supersiors authorized was his plan to work with Garak to create false evidence of the Dominion planning an attack on Romulus to lure them into the war against the Dominion.

 

[pimp]

Nobody's nominated Sisko? Well let me be the first.

Well, he was told to get the Romulans into the war not matter what it takes by his superiors...

Not exactly. Bringing the Romulans into the war, "no matter what it takes" was a promise he made to himself. All his supersiors authorized was his plan to work with Garak to create false evidence of the Dominion planning an attack on Romulus to lure them into the war against the Dominion.

The way I see it is Sisko did a good thing here because by forcing the Romulans to enter the war, meant that the alpha quadrant would have a better chance of surviving thus helping the Romulans from fooking it up not only for them selves but everyone else in the quadrant even though he used immoral ways to achieve this but strategically it was the right thing. soooo I would not put this as an evil trait or moment.

 

[Nightdiamond]

Notice how the more villainous people are the higher ranking officers?

Here's another one:

Captain Maxwell-for destroying "innocent" civilian and military Cardassian ships without provocation --though as Gary7 put it, "villainous" has a number of different points of views.

He honestly thought they were carrying weapons for a military build up- and he was probably right-but since Picard didn't search the ships, we'll never know for sure.

But he was most likely right, and might have prevented another conflict.

 

[BillJ]

Captain Maxwell-for destroying "innocent" civilian and military Cardassian ships without provocation --though as Gary7 put it, "villainous" has a number of different points of views.

He honestly thought they were carrying weapons for a military build up- and he was probably right-but since Picard didn't search the ships, we'll never know for sure.

But he was most likely right, and might have prevented another conflict.

Maxwell was right. That was the whole point of the talk wit Gul Macet at the end of the episode and the final "we'll be watching" remark.

Dougherty was no different than Picard in the episode Journey's End. Picard was willing to move a native population against its will to keep command of the Enterprise. At least with Dougherty, we're unclear on what his motivations are.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ The difference there is, Picard was basically forced to move the colonists as per the terms of the treaty with the Cardassians. If he had refused, war with Cardassia could very well have broken out.

 

[Paradon]

Well, he was told to get the Romulans into the war not matter what it takes by his superiors...

Not exactly. Bringing the Romulans into the war, "no matter what it takes" was a promise he made to himself. All his supersiors authorized was his plan to work with Garak to create false evidence of the Dominion planning an attack on Romulus to lure them into the war against the Dominion.

The way I see it is Sisko did a good thing here because by forcing the Romulans to enter the war, meant that the alpha quadrant would have a better chance of surviving thus helping the Romulans from fooking it up not only for them selves but everyone else in the quadrant even though he used immoral ways to achieve this but strategically it was the right thing. soooo I would not put this as an evil trait or moment.

This is why you build up credits by not risking innocent alien lives for your own gain to make up for the bad things that might happened unexpectedly from either you screwing up or you really need help to save your own ass because something terrible has happened. It's kindda...like going to church to build up your credits so you can go to heaven, or just doing something nice for my girlfriend unexpectedly and randomly in case I screw up!

 

[pimp]

Not exactly. Bringing the Romulans into the war, "no matter what it takes" was a promise he made to himself. All his supersiors authorized was his plan to work with Garak to create false evidence of the Dominion planning an attack on Romulus to lure them into the war against the Dominion.

The way I see it is Sisko did a good thing here because by forcing the Romulans to enter the war, meant that the alpha quadrant would have a better chance of surviving thus helping the Romulans from fooking it up not only for them selves but everyone else in the quadrant even though he used immoral ways to achieve this but strategically it was the right thing. soooo I would not put this as an evil trait or moment.

This is why you build up credits by not risking innocent alien lives for your own gain to make up for the bad things that might happened unexpectedly from either you screwing up or you really need help to save your own ass because something terrible has happened. It's kindda...like going to church to build up your credits so you can go to heaven, or just doing something nice for my girlfriend unexpectedly and randomly in case I screw up!

I never knew God handed out credits, I must be in deficit by a long way lol

joke aside, I get your point

 

[Hartzilla2007]

^ The difference there is, Picard was basically forced to move the colonists as per the terms of the treaty with the Cardassians. If he had refused, war with Cardassia could very well have broken out.

where as Dougherty was moving people who were not federation citizens from a non-federation planet (which means HE HAS NO AUTHORITY TO DO IT) just to have a foutain of youth.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Probably on Section 31's sayso.

 

[T'Girl]

where as Dougherty was moving people who were not federation citizens from a non-federation planet (which means HE HAS NO AUTHORITY TO DO IT) just to have a foutain of youth.

Where as Dougherty was going to bring a incredible medical treatment to hundreds of billions of people, simultaneously inconveniencing a few hundred people in one little valley, on a Federation planet (a fact the Baku never refuted).

Would you move six hundred people for a cure for cancer?

Would you move six hundred people for a cure for AiDS?

Doughtery was willing to make that "faustian bargain," plus he was acting under orders from his government.

Hardly a villian

 

[antiquityscion]

Admiral Dougherty (Insurrection)

Admiral Leyton (DS9, Paradise Lost)

Admiral Pressman (TNG, Pegasus)

Captain Jellico (TNG, Chain of Command)

Captain Merrick ( TOS, Bread and Circuses)

Captain Ransom (VOY, Equinox)

Captain Tracy (TOS, Omega GLory)

Ben Finney (TOS, court martial)

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

That's easy; Janeway. Stick a swastika in place of her comm badge and you have the Eva Braun of the 24th Century.

 

[Damask]

Not exactly. Bringing the Romulans into the war, "no matter what it takes" was a promise he made to himself. All his supersiors authorized was his plan to work with Garak to create false evidence of the Dominion planning an attack on Romulus to lure them into the war against the Dominion.

Isnt that all Sisko did though? He didnt kill anyone and wasnt aware of Garak's true plan until after the fact?