The most un-star trek momments of star trek

[GeneHunt]

By this i mean scenes that go against the vision of the future that trek holds, for me these tend to be:

In the tos episode where theres that creature that needs salt to live so its killing crewmen by taking the salt from their bodies, even though they knew all it was doing was trying to survive they killed it, wouldnt it of been more "star trek" to simply find an alternative way of feeding it salt and finding it a naturally salt rich planet to live on.

Kirks "SHOOT HIM" in Star Trek V.

Kirks "LET THEM DIE" In Star Trek VI.

In the TNG episode where they clone Riker and Pulaski, Riker just casually kills the clones in a rather brutal way, dont starfleet officers respect all life.

O'Briens and Bashir's mocking of Quark when he is telling them about the time ferenginar had economic problems when they are sulking about earth in "Paradise Lost".

The whole Romulan deception in "In The Pale Moonlight" although desperate times call for desperate measures.

The attempt to exterminate the founders with the virus but again desperate times call for desperate measures.

What do you guys think?

 

[JM1776]

I think it's ridiculous that two of the three scummy things done on DS9 receive a qualifier/justification, while the rest are simply listed.

 

[GeneHunt]

I think it's ridiculous that two of the three scummy things done on DS9 receive a qualifier/justification, while the rest are simply listed.

Thats because they can be, while the rest cant.

 

[JM1776]

Spoken like a rabid Niner.

 

[GeneHunt]

Spoken like a rabid Niner.

Lol.

Ok then to keep you happy (also just a few things i forgot), almost all of series three of enterprise was unstar trek (the torturing the stealing of the warp core from a good race).

And in an episode of voyager (i cant remember any details) tuvok tells janeway "they are slipping into the planets atmosphere." janeway then smiles and voyager leaves, wouldnt it of been more "star trek" for her to rescue them even if they are "bad guys".

 

[JM1776]

Re: The most un-Star Srek moments of Star Trek

We could add Sisko's actions in "For the Uniform" ... Janeway's in "The Swarm," "Equinox," "Scorpion," "Tuvix" and a few others ... Data's in "The Most Toys" ...

I'm sure there are others.

 

[GeneHunt]

Re: The most un-Star Srek moments of Star Trek

We could add Sisko's actions in "For the Uniform" ... Janeway's in "The Swarm," "Equinox," "Scorpion," "Tuvix" and a few others ... Data's in "The Most Toys" ...

I'm sure there are others.

Indeed, forgot about those ones, what happened in "The Swarm" again?

 

[stj]

Episodes that took religion as a serious idea (instead of a generalized approval of moral uplift.) At first blush, Bread and Circuses qualifies but it was attacking the religions of consumerism and US jingoism (the Romans were US, not the Sun/Son worshippers!)

Sacred Ground, Omega Directive, Barge of the Underworld are three Voyager offenses.

 

[Cyke101]

Bar fights are very much un-Trek. And yet they're almost always fun, no matter what show they're on. At K-7, Ten-Forward, Quark's, the Mess Hall...

...wait, did Enterprise have a bar fight? If not, that might explain the show's downfall.

 

[JM1776]

Re: The most un-Star Srek moments of Star Trek

Indeed, forgot about those ones, what happened in "The Swarm" again?

In brief ... Janeway violated a sovereign state's borders and employed lethal force against vessels justly defending their territory simply because she wanted to shorten Voyager's journey.

 

[Sci]

Kirks "LET THEM DIE" In Star Trek VI.

Well, I think that that was the point -- to show Kirk doing and saying something that was completely wrong and in violation of his own principles. And to then have him go through an experience where he realizes how wrong and how bigoted he's been, and learns to let go of it. "You've restored my father's faith." "And you've restored my son's." I would argue that that is actually more genuinely "Trekkian" if you have a character realize that he has been wrong and genuinely reform himself.

O'Briens and Bashir's mocking of Quark when he is telling them about the time ferenginar had economic problems when they are sulking about earth in "Paradise Lost".

I think that one of DS9's general points was always that the Starfleet and Federation of TNG often pretends to be above prejudice but is not, as evidenced by the way Federates tend to treat Ferengi. Now, granted, DS9 doesn't really go into the whole "they reform themselves" bit -- though Sisko, at least, does seem to gain some respect for the Ferengi after Quark chews him out on his anti-Ferengi prejudices in "The Jem'Hadar." But that's DS9 -- a show that's more willing to challenge whether or not Trek itself actually lives up to its self-proclaimed ideals without always answering the question.

The whole Romulan deception in "In The Pale Moonlight" although desperate times call for desperate measures.

Hmmm. Was that anti-Trekkian? Would it have been consistent with the Trek vision to let the Federation fall before the Dominion, which surely would have happened without Romulan involvement? I don't know. It seems pretty clear from the episode that Sisko hates himself for what he's done -- and, really, he didn't do the worst of it himself; Garak did. There's an ambiguity to the whole thing that I think is useful to have in a larger narrative about trying to create the ideal state. I think it's important to note that sometimes, the state is not ideal, and to explore how people really react to the state's imperfections -- not how they ought to react to the state's imperfections -- if you want to take real steps towards depicting or creating the ideal state. It's not enough to show Utopia; sometimes, you need to see what happens when Utopia falters if you really want to explore how to keep Utopia perfect.

It's like people who point out all the bad things the United States has done rather than depict it as never doing anything wrong. It's not that they don't believe in the United States or don't believe in doing right -- it's that they think it's important to explore darkness if you want to depict and create light.

The attempt to exterminate the founders with the virus but again desperate times call for desperate measures.

DS9 depicted this as being rather unambiguously evil, immoral, worthy of condemnation, and as being a mistake that very nearly cost the Federation the war -- only an act of mercy on Odo's part against Section 31's butchery saved the Allies from a Pyhrric victory.

 

[EliyahuQeoni]

Kirks "LET THEM DIE" In Star Trek VI.

Well, I think that that was the point -- to show Kirk doing and saying something that was completely wrong and in violation of his own principles. And to then have him go through an experience where he realizes how wrong and how bigoted he's been, and learns to let go of it. "You've restored my father's faith." "And you've restored my son's." I would argue that that is actually more genuinely "Trekkian" if you have a character realize that he has been wrong and genuinely reform himself.

You took the words right out of my mouth. I've always thought that this made Kirk much more human and believable as a character. I mean, how often do we all fall short of our ideals and principles? And given his history with the Klingons--especially given how David died--its not all that surprising that he was a bit bigoted toward them. Maybe its because I grew up in the Cold War era that ST VI was reflecting, but I can totally relate to Kirk's explanation that he was "used to hating Klingons." After all, they'd been the enemy of the UFP all of his life. The fact that he is able to overcome this prejudice is what makes him heroic and admirable in that movie.

 

[sbk1234]

^^^It's interesting that William Shatner discusses that he tried to perform that scene to show that Kirk just blurted those words out in anger, but then regretted what he said. Meyer then edited Shatner's reaction out, much to Bill's chagrin.

I found it un-Treklike in an episode of DS9 where Sisko tells Jake that Humans and Ferengi are too different to ever be firends.

 

[STIntergalactic]

Bar fights are very much un-Trek. And yet they're almost always fun, no matter what show they're on. At K-7, Ten-Forward, Quark's, the Mess Hall...

...wait, did Enterprise have a bar fight? If not, that might explain the show's downfall.

There was a bar fight in ENT. I can't recall the episode's name, but the one where he told T'Pol the story of the NX project.

And my vote for untrek moment goes to Archer's actions in "Simultude" (sp?)

 

[Jack Bauer]

Bar fights are very much un-Trek. And yet they're almost always fun, no matter what show they're on. At K-7, Ten-Forward, Quark's, the Mess Hall...

...wait, did Enterprise have a bar fight? If not, that might explain the show's downfall.

There was a bar fight in ENT. I can't recall the episode's name, but the one where he told T'Pol the story of the NX project.

First Flight

 

[STIntergalactic]

Bar fights are very much un-Trek. And yet they're almost always fun, no matter what show they're on. At K-7, Ten-Forward, Quark's, the Mess Hall...

...wait, did Enterprise have a bar fight? If not, that might explain the show's downfall.

There was a bar fight in ENT. I can't recall the episode's name, but the one where he told T'Pol the story of the NX project.

First Flight

Thank you, that was bugging me.

 

[Brennyren]

At the end of VOY's "Friendship One," Janeway makes an excruciatingly un-Trek speech about how the need to explore isn't worth the risk of "even one" life. Wow, had the writer ever watched any Trek series, including the one this episode is part of?

 

[Sci]

^^^It's interesting that William Shatner discusses that he tried to perform that scene to show that Kirk just blurted those words out in anger, but then regretted what he said. Meyer then edited Shatner's reaction out, much to Bill's chagrin.

I found it un-Treklike in an episode of DS9 where Sisko tells Jake that Humans and Ferengi are too different to ever be firends.

Yeah, but then Jake and Nog went and became life-long best friends, completely proving Sisko wrong, which I think was very Trekkish.

 

[Cyke101]

There was a bar fight in ENT. I can't recall the episode's name, but the one where he told T'Pol the story of the NX project.

First Flight

Thank you, that was bugging me.

That was bugging me, too. You've restored my faith in Enterprise.

Enterprise: "And you've restored my son's."

...wait, what?

 

[EnsignJulka]

Assignment: Earth....if you were gonna make a pilot then just do it, don't "pretend" it was a Star Trek episode...