Game The Most Disliked Episode With Matriarchal Aliens

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sakonna, Jul 13, 2020.

  1. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Next up in these themed elimination games: EPISODES WITH MATRIARCHAL ALIENS (the post below this talks more about the parameters)

    THE RULES. The basic idea is your standard elimination game. Below are a list of Star Trek episodes substantially involving matriarchal aliens. Eliminate your FAVORITE or the one you deem the 'BEST.' Please provide an EXPLANATION for why you are eliminating your choice and be sure to copy and paste the list with your choice removed.

    Leave at least 2 eliminations by other posters before you eliminate another episode.


    No tactical voting! You cannot remove an episode just because you feel it would threaten your preferred episode's chance to win.


    Much thanks to @Farscape One for vetting the list with me. :bolian:
    Enjoy! :bolian::beer::bolian::biggrin::bolian:

    TOS Season 3: "Spock's Brain"
    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 2: "Manhunt"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    TNG Feature: "Star Trek: First Contact"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 3: "Distant Origin"
    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    VOY Season 7: "Endgame"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
    PIC Season 1: "Absolute Candor"
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  2. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    Dec 15, 2015
    Compiling this list was surprising, in that I knew Trek's track record with matriarchal aliens was rather sorry, but I didn't realize it was THIS sorry.

    There were several episodes where an alien Queen is the only leader we see, but there was also a reference to King's or other male leaders, so those were left off. The Borg Queen episodes are a bit of a stretch, but they do seem to have committed to the notion that the Borg always specifically have a QUEEN, so included those on that basis.

    The Barzan of "The Price" I'm just making a hopeful assumption they belong here, as we've only seen the two, that one female leader on TNG and Nhan being an awesome badass on Disco. (Episodes where we see only one ruler who happens to be female were left off -- if it wasn't explicitly stated, I tried to make sure there were at least two characters or plot points or whatever that supported the conclusion they were matriarchal)

    The first three Lwaxana episodes are on here, as they were the ones that went the most into Betazoid culture.

    "Shockwave, Part I" is included because the episode does revolve around their disastrous effort to visit a group of matriarchal aliens, who we never see. But the off-camera incineration of these aliens is the main incident of the story.

    Anyway, after streeeeeeetching to come up with 18 episodes (out of 778) involving matriarchal aliens, I started to make a complimentary list about episodes with patriarchal aliens. I abandoned that when I realized I was at about 150 such episodes and it seemed like I'd barely begun, there were sooooo many more still to go.

    I'm curious if anyone will have any episodes to add to this that we missed... (TOS: "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" was intentionally left off, as the matriarchal aliens referenced here are just incidental backstory -- the computer is behaving alternately petulantly and flirtatiously in this episode, which is explained to be the result of the ship recently receiving maintenance on a planet dominated by women)
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  3. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    Lwaxana's most humorous outing,

    TNG Season 2: "Manhunt"


    Even if some of the jokes don't begin to hold up today...

    What does hold up?


    (some acting chops to go with the pork chops, and it's all good - Majel steals the scene regarding "that robot" of Picard's :guffaw:)


    (Riker's expression is adorable)


    (Data is surprised? So are we! :devil:)


    The teaser for the episode too is bizarrely highly entertaining, trying to make Lwaxana the baddie (when the whole episode is about using the Big-E as a taxi cab to ferry two fishy characters to some conference...)

    But the episode is well-structured since the main plot's reveal isn't told until well into the episode yet it doesn't feel meandering...

    Oh yeah, Lwaxana going gaga in the holodeck and not understanding why her virtual paramour wasn't readable was a riot.



    Also, what about
    The Qowat Milat, the Romulan Nuns as they are a matriarchal society?


    What's left:
    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    TNG Feature: "Star Trek: First Contact"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 3: "Distant Origin"
    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    VOY Season 7: "Endgame"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
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  4. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    Dec 15, 2015
    I thought about it, but it felt cleaner to leave it at societies that were matriarchal at the very top. Including the Qowat Milat, it opens it to other eps that had those moments of "in Cardassian society, the women dominate the sciences" and what have you.

    That being said, it is an episode that deals with a matriarchal alien society in a way more substantial (and respectful) than most of these. So I do feel a bit split-decision-y.

    And I actually do like "Absolute Candor" more than any other ep on here, so let me make it easy -- I'll take this turn to add and then immediately eliminate the episode. It really is fantastic, some of the best Romulan worldbuilding in the entire franchise. And the episode is a fantastic blend of episodic and serialized story elements, brilliant structure.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  5. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Watch out HYDRA - here we come! Premium Member

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    I'll ensure that First Contact is saved from the Borg. It comes across as a dumb action flick at times, but I still love the upgrade in FX had here, and also just how unnerving the Borg Queen was here. It's her best use, by far.

    The race against time to both save the Enterprise, and ensure that Cochrane makes his warp flight, are nicely paced. I always enjoy Picard's desperation against the Borg and his former crewmembers.


    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 3: "Distant Origin"
    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    VOY Season 7: "Endgame"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
  6. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Saving "DISTANT ORIGIN".

    It's one of the best of that series, and ut doesn't even center on the ship or crew. Outstanding guest work and premise, and I wish we had more episodes told from the alien perspective.

    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    VOY Season 7: "Endgame"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
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  7. CPT Baldwin

    CPT Baldwin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Mar 11, 2017
    Saving VOY Season 7: "Endgame"
    You can't get more matriarchal than this, plus it's Endgame!!!

    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
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  8. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    "'Zero hour', What's that?" "It's a movie rebooted into 'Airplane!' but that's not important right now."

    VOY Season 5: "Dark Frontier"

    Yeah, a lot of these stories are near- or total-bleep, but despite a couple quibbles and a little excess schmaltz at the big epic reveal near the end that absolutely nobody could have guessed (but everyone did), "Dark Frontier" still ramped up the action and was a fun yarn/.

    The episode has a great soundtrack for sure, almost no wallpaper but lots of complementary music.

    And great hipster teasers for teh Gen-X geezers!



    As far as Borg stories go it was still exciting and suspenseful... The Seven/Janeway and Seven/Queen dynamics are wonderful to behold... like this moment:







    Lastly, about that very special episode of "Zero Hour", the one I actually did get to see:





    What's left:
    TAS Season 1: "The Lorelei Signal"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
  9. Boo-rennyren

    Boo-rennyren Commodore Commodore

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    Pittsburgh, PA
    "The Lorelei Signal" was the first episode to put a woman in command of the Enterprise -- or for that matter, of any Federation starship. (The Romulans were more progressive? Seriously? Though it would seem that The Enterprise Incident's RomCom was only female to allow Spock to serve as a honey trap.) Uhura acquitted herself well, a calm and competent professional who was more than a match for a planet of predatory sirens. And her team needed neither testes nor trousers to get the job done.

    As an adolescent girl watching this in the early 70s, I found it thrilling.

    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
    ENT Season 4: "Bound"
     
  10. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Saving "BOUND".

    I enjoyed the episode, and it was a clever reveal about who was really in charge in Orion society.

    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
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  11. Tenacity

    Tenacity Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No Spock's Brain ?
     
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  12. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    Dec 15, 2015
    You're right, that does belong, adding it below. That episode was so confused in my memory, I was recalling the men and women alike as all being dominated by the Teacher or whatever. But I just read thru the relevant sections in the episode transcript (the sacrifices I make for these games! :biggrin:) and that is definitely a matriarchal society, the women are decisively placed above the men.

    TOS Season 3: "Spock's Brain"
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
  13. CPT Baldwin

    CPT Baldwin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Mar 11, 2017
    Don't understand why Zero Hour is on this list, think Carbon Creek more meets the theme!
     
  14. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    I think both sides were meant to be shown as dunderlings for a specific reason...

    TOS Season 3: "Spock's Brain"

    The premise of a humanoid brain operating a city's HVAC system is... impossible to sell properly, because even back then machines would do the same work faster and more efficiently. Part of me wonders how the heck this society got to the point they needed a brain in there to begin with, especially with the magical teaching machine (of which at least they mention brain incompatibilities). Never mind how they split apart to such an incredible and incredulous extent.

    But the saving grace is showing, albeit with some lame and oversimplified stereotyping, both sexes being in their little cliques and each being stupid in their own ways. Note: The morgs are just as dumb, if not dumber but they're not going to tell it, instead finding a way to show it instead. The overall theme of working together, muddled as it was, is still as interesting as it was basic.

    The rear projection bridge viewscreen was awesome - shame it was ditched. The scene where they use it to do their guesswork is actually pretty taut.

    Such a mixed bag... and I even didn't go into the biggest double entendre of the millennium. :wah:


    What's left:
    TNG Season 1: "Haven"
    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
  15. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Watch out HYDRA - here we come! Premium Member

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    I love Haven so much, as it's a great introduction for Lwaxana (and Mr. Homn! :D)

    "I am Lwaxana Troi, daughter of the Fifth House, holder of the Sacred Chalice of Rixx, heir to the Holy Rings of Betazed. Who are you?"

    TNG Season 1: "Angel One"
    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
  16. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The clinic located by the Q Continuum
    Great episode!!

    The idea of a race being contagious and hunted to extinction is pretty gritty stuff. The whole episode had to balance numerous concepts to lessen the dark nature of that topic and there are some fun scenes too!

    Oh, we posted at the same time so I took out the "Spock's Brain" title.



    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 6: "Unimatrix Zero, Part I"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
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  17. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Watch out HYDRA - here we come! Premium Member

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    It's always fun trying to keep up with the photo finish posts. :techman:

    I'm sure at one time three people voted to save the same episode at the same time.
     
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  18. Sakonna

    Sakonna Commodore Commodore

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    Dec 15, 2015
    The scenes with the Sphere Builders — we only see ever see the one Sphere Builder male, who’s seemingly being used as a sacrificial experiment subject, and then the episodes later in the season have all women as the people making all the decisions.

    There are so many things wrong with those Sphere Builder scenes (most glaringly that all they're ever saying is "the timelines where the humans are successful are increasing!" -- this is Drama 101 people, cutaways like this should be used to INCREASE the tension, not reassure us that things are looking ever brighter for our heroes as the climax approaches!). But I must confess I do LOVE that they finally had some cool aliens that were just casually (nearly) all women, to add to the billion alien races we'd already seen that were casually all male, or all male with one token female in the BG.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
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  19. Boo-rennyren

    Boo-rennyren Commodore Commodore

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    Pittsburgh, PA
    I'll save "Unimatrix Zero I" because, let's face it, when your caper-film caper is, "Hey gang, let's infiltrate the Borg!" you get points for brass if nothing else. I have always thought that if Chak had decided to relieve KJ of command right then and there, he probably would have won if it came to a trial.

    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    TNG, Season 3: "Ménage à Troi"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
  20. Cyfa

    Cyfa Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Dec 9, 2013
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    over the Cusp
    Well, we can't leave a Lwaxana episode all on it's own amongst the remainders, so you're saved "Ménage à Troi"! Our first (and only??) look at Betazed, Lwaxana manipulating the Ferengi, Deanna's dreadful frock, and Picard's threatening "speech" at the end - what's not to like? Except for Deanna's frock - it really is diabolical! :lol:

    TNG Season 3: "The Price"
    DS9 Season 2: "Sanctuary"
    VOY Season 7: "Unimatrix Zero, Part II"
    ENT Season 1: "Shockwave, Part I"
    ENT Season 3: "The Council"
    ENT Season 3: "Countdown"
    ENT Season 3: "Zero Hour"
     
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