Game The Most Disliked Borg Episode

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Sakonna, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Saving "Infinite Regress" for a brilliant performance by Jeri Ryan, who brought a laundry list of personalities to vivid life. I still remember how, when I watched it for the first time, I choked up when Seven conveyed the personality of a mother looking for her son, who'd been lost at Wolf 359. Outstanding work!

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 6: “Descent, Part I”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 4: “One”
    VOY Season 4: “Hope And Fear”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 6: “Child’s Play”
    VOY Season 6: “Unimatrix Zero, Part I”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  2. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    "Hope And Fear" is like the ideal non-cliffhanger finale. The Janeway/Seven conflict in it so nicely caps their relationship over the season, and the story of the consequences of "Scorpion" coming back to haunt Janeway is compelling. I honestly feel like I get more on Arturis's side every time I rewatch this one. Kathryn Janeway, galactic menace!

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 6: “Descent, Part I”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 4: “One”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 6: “Child’s Play”
    VOY Season 6: “Unimatrix Zero, Part I”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
  3. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Farscape One
    Saving "ONE".

    A typical 'lone person on the ship' trope, but it was played brilliantly by Jeri Ryan.

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 6: “Descent, Part I”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 6: “Child’s Play”
    VOY Season 6: “Unimatrix Zero, Part I”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
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  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I'm going to save "Descent, Part I" because I wholeheartedly believe there are worse episodes on this list, it's interesting to see the set-up of the repercussions of "I, Borg", you've got Nechayev going full Nechayev, and you've got Stephen Hawking.

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 6: “Child’s Play”
    VOY Season 6: “Unimatrix Zero, Part I”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Farscape One and Seven of Five like this.
  5. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Never go full Nechayev! ;)

    "Unimatrix Zero, Part I" scores my next save for being so shamelessly over-the-top that one pictures Bill Shatner giving it the side-eye and going, "Damn!" A caper-flick-style caper set on a Borg cube -- what else is there to say? Just go to red alert and get it over with.

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 6: “Child’s Play”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
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  6. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

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    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    Child's Play is a good episode for Icheb.

    His own parents sent him to be assimilated on purpose, hoping to cause damage to them. I don't agree with their actions at all, yet the desperation of countless people driven to do trrrible things is an intriguing side effect of the Borg on their relentlessness.

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  7. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    BOBW was an exercise in roleplay, wasn't it...

    TNG Season 4: “The Best Of Both Worlds, Part II”

    Seriously; part 2 just inverts part one, albeit very cleverly - a group of invaders infiltrates a working society to steal a person to make a liaison representative for the whole group.

    Keep in mind, Maurice Hurley was something of a genius in making the Borg a straight-faced parody of Roddenberry's 24th century Federation. Two sides of the same coin. Two worlds that are more alike in certain aspects... (Also, since I'm known to digress, his unused GEN movie ideas may have worked out with fewer contrivances to get Kirk on screen too... but I digress (twice :nyah:).) BOBW takes the reins of this thematic idea and ties it in marvelously well.

    Complete with shock ending. Only instead of showing Borgified captain, the measure used to take out the Borg* was shockingly low-key instead of a gigantic space pew pew battle and it's ingenious. How many UNIX operating system developers worked with the TNG writing staff at the time? :biggrin:

    (Which is not a complaint, I did and still do dig it... great, now and for some bizarre reason I remember that phone commercial with the thumb and the 3-and-under music that comes across as oddl-- here's the video:




    I'm not fond of the frame they used as thumbnail either... But the fun starts at 2:43, or 2:42.8 but they don't do nanoseconds. If you have a strong stomach, or four of them like how I've got, sit through the whole thing from 0:00 as the presentation puts out far more than what they're saying, which is actually rather depressing... especially as iPhones are pretty cool and didn't need that style of marketing... even if one needn't be a geek or nerd or PC guy..
    )

    * and I ain't talkin' the good way involving dinner, movie, and/or dessert :devil: there, I made a silly joke and now I feel better again​

    This episode really manages to subvert expectations (e.g. the battle being offscreen) incredibly well. TNG's blend of intellectualism with action really is satisfying. There's no sawdust in this cake along with the rest of the proverbial meal it's putting out.

    There's still more Enterprise-vs-Borg action scenes as in part one (about time :razz: as unlike for TOS, TNG didn't do lengthy action space dogfights every episode :borg:. And honestly, who doesn't like it when the Enterprise battles the Borg (or to "engage" them but I missed the eloping, ceremony, divorce, etc) ?)

    And if the battle bridge was to be jettisoned out of the TV show, because of the belief separating it leads to mushier drama or whatever the claim was, then it got a good swansong. The premiere contrived it because, well, it's a premiere showing off. "Arsenal of Freedom" utilizes the concept with much tact and deftness... then it never happens again until BOBW pt 2. Then never on TV again. (Then comes the movie and they destroy the whole ship, and showing one heck of a crash sequence:


    Not what you were expecting... :devil: Just like how I felt at the time... well, both times... all three times? Maybe four...
    )

    The dramatic subplot with Riker's being offered command, promotion (but not under the happiest of circumstances, but at least they were shiny ones), and getting to pick Shelby as #1 are eminently well-explored.

    As usual, sci-fi always has to find a way to continue the largely pointless trope of engaging in what Captain Kirk, Archer, Quinn Mallory, Sam Beckett, Kylo Ren, Sean Donovan, Apollo, Beastmaster, 80% of Glitter Rock (since it's a kid show, but seriously - read up then watch it, it's an electra-hoot!), et al (not that I'm counting or anything), did**, and that's to get the lead male actor out of his shirt for some contrived and/or pompous reason. It's always fun to relate to a pasty-complexion person and Picard-as-Borg fits. Of course, wanting an encore, "Chain of Command" dispatches with the refrigerator radiator coils and aquarium tubing...

    ** yet not for Darth Vader or Obi Wan or Superman (since his was covered by that glitter rock sheet in that infamous scene proving to Lois once and for all about that comparison regarding being faster than the speeding locomotive), etc​

    Lastly, shiny happy people are the Borg if you really, really think about it (and/or into it wayyyyy too much.):


    What's left:
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "The End Is The Beginning" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
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  8. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2012
    Location:
    JirinPanthosa
    Shocked the winner isn't the Enterprise one.

    Saving The End Is The Beginning.

    For all its flaws, it's a better episode than the genericness remaining in this contest.

    I wonder what would happen if we had a game like this where you removed your favorite *and* least favorite. Most average episode?

    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 4: “The Omega Directive”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
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  9. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Saving "THE OMEGA DIRECTIVE".

    An interesting piece of knowledge that even the Borg have their own Holy Grail. Seven explains it really well, and it was nice seeing that side of her personality explored, even briefly.

    And I like the concept of a secret Starfleet directive that rescinds EVERYTHING else.


    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
    PIC Season 1: "Broken Pieces" [spoiler tag your elimination reasons]
     
    Seven of Five likes this.
  10. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    Broken Pieces was another very good episode of PIC.

    I particularly enjoyed Seven coming to help save the day on the Borg cube.

    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
     
  11. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    So many for a while have been "yuck"...

    VOY Season 4: “The Raven”

    Without getting into nitpicks, it did paint with a broad enough brush Seven's backstory and was enjoyable enough at the time... Other episodes (already saved or not, except for one) did have more meat to them, but for overall presentation, "Raven"'s carrying more weight and gets saved. I will say this, "BIG EPIC SELF-REPEATING CANNIBALIZING ZILCH" definitely makes more than one appearance from all the stories presented at the start...


    What's left:
    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Unimatrix Zero, Part II”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
     
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  12. Brennyren

    Brennyren Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2003
    Location:
    Pittsburgh, PA, USA
    Might as well save the second part of "Unimatrix Zero" for my last save of the round. It wasn't any less crazy than Part I, but it was fun, energetic, and entertaining. Just keep telling yourself, "It's just a show. I should really just relax."

    TNG Season 7: “Descent, Part II”
    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
     
  13. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2017
    Location:
    Farscape One
    Crappy final 3 list. I refuse to save the VGR finale, so that leaves either an episode with a bratty child in charge of little Borg, or a rather bad Data episode. This is terrible.

    Because I have a soft spot for Data (I'm sure that's VERY apparent by now.), and because we got Crusher in command... and she did a great job, too... I am saving "Descent, Part II".

    Good luck to whoever eliminates the last one. This is abysmal.

    VOY Season 6: “Collective”
    VOY Season 7: “Endgame”
     
  14. Sakonna

    Sakonna Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    I actually do like "Collective"! I think it's a clever way to do another Borg episode without having to go "Dark Frontier" big, and the Borg children were a good addition to the series. Icheb brought interesting things out of Seven.

    "Endgame" wins! Deservedly so -- I do not care for this one.

    EXHAUSTED, just had to save "Collective" before bed -- but will be back with the full winner list and a new game tomorrow. :bolian:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
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  15. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Stupid Sexy Flanders! Premium Member

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    May 1, 2001
    Location:
    Staffordshire, UK
    Yay, Endgame finally won one. :devil:

    Before These Are The Voyages came into town, thorough disappointment in a series finale was Voyager's game, so I find it a worthy winner.

    I just find it so odd how they spend so much time on the future timeline, which will be altered into something else entirely.

    I also wasn't particularly enamoured with the use of the Borg in the finale. The Borg Queen hadn't been threatening to me since First Contact, though they wheel her out again for added ominous menace. Hmm.
     
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  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Well, I did like seeing Alice Krige reprise the role at least. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing about "Endgame" I really enjoyed, and say what you will about DS9 stumbling a bit with parts of WYLB, "Endgame" felt like a huge step down...so at least TATV was just following the trend? Sigh.
     
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  17. Qonundrum

    Qonundrum Vice Admiral Admiral

    Like with the reason the Queen was created (a movie with just Drones would be bland), there's only so much they could do with a figurehead like the Queen. No matter how good the actor is, having the figurehead peek out of a corner and shout "Boo!" isn't going to work. And as the Queen keeps returning out of nowhere despite dying, is she using 487676-dimnensional time travel trickery like she had to get out of the cube in TBOBW to be able to show up in STFC? Or another Queen? One Queen per ship? VOY had nowhere to go except recycling with attempts at making things more epic. It's what they tried avoid doing in TNG with I Borg and Descent, which were promptly forgotten about the second TNG ended too, hehe...

    "Endgame" was another case of the "BIG EPIC SELF-REPEATING CANNIBALIZING ZILCH" routine, but didn't feel as lackadaisical as "Unimatrix Zero" (which also had a moment of "BIG EPIC SELF-REPEATING CANNIBALIZING ZILCH"...)


     
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  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
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    I've always just assumed that despite being called a "Queen" she's really just an avatar for the Collective, so if one is destroyed they can just build another.

    Unfortunately by later in VOY's run she was actually talking to drones, which may have worked as a dramatic necessity but made no logical sense.
     
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  19. Xhiandra

    Xhiandra Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2012
    The firecaves parts of WYLB were so stupid. Thankfully, the Cardassian resistance parts were quite nice.
     
  20. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mar 22, 2001
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    Burlington, VT, USA
    That part of WYLB and the arc entire is an unfortunately great example of the writers leading themselves down a hole and then not really having any option other than to see it through.