The MKI EMH

[SimpleLogic]

Why wouldn't Starfleet have just done a software update to MKII and above? Since it is just a program it doesn't make too much sense to make them miners when you can just run the update over it, like Windows or OS updates.

I get that an EMH would be a lot more sophisticated but surely the MK versions didn't have too much of an upgrade to medical science, most of what would have been new would be a patch and new skin designs, though I'm not sure why anyone would want Andy Dick as their Doctor. :-)

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Why didn't they turn them into actual mining machines rather than people shape.

 

[NightJim]

Probably for the same reason Microsoft and Apple do release a new version of their OS' etc every few years. Sometimes there's so many changes that patches just aren't feasible.

We already know that the personality was completely new, as was the look. By now we're already well past the point that a patch just isn't feasible. I can't remember what else was said to be changing in the DS9 episode.

The Homecoming/Farther Shore novels also state the the ethics program was changed to it couldn't be disabled, and heavily imply that it was only an oversight on the MK1.

As to why they're miners... that never made sense. It always struck me as massively ineffecient. Why not just delete them and make actual mining holograms?

 

[Kytee]

I never thought of reprogramming the holograms to look like actual machines, that makes a ton of sense. I don't recall the specifics of the episode but wasn't the EMH granted the same level of rights as Data was in Measure of a Man, if so, why didn't the EMH Mk1's quit instead of being miners ?

 

[SimpleLogic]

Probably for the same reason Microsoft and Apple do release a new version of their OS' etc every few years. Sometimes there's so many changes that patches just aren't feasible.

True but even those you can still do an upgrade. But even in the event of a full reinstall it doesn't turn the previous version of Windows into a laborer.

Also I love your avatar. Darth Vader of Vulcan I Love Back to the Future.

 

[NightJim]

Simple Logic:
Cheers. Back to the Future rocks! But again it depends. MS does release 'new versions' a little bit more quickly than neccesassary because they're a business. Starfleet don't need to release a new EMH just because it's been a couple of years. MK2 would likely be a big overhaul. A more realistic view would be looking at more like XP to Window 8. No way you can install an upgrade there.

Kytee:
The EMH's are specifically not granted the same rights as Data. He's only recognised as the author of the work and so has control over his own creation.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

That whole thing was so unsettling.

I didn't like the idea of Starfleet using them that way.

And regardless, they should have not made them sentient with the ability of thought or speech. It makes it almost akin to slavery.

Should have just deleted them or adjusted them to be machines.

 

[Captain Kathryn]

Why didn't they turn them into actual mining machines rather than people shape.

I'm guessing the real world reason is that they wanted to use Picardo.

But I totally agree. I really, really hate when they show the EMHs as miners.

 

[vulcan redshirt]

Maybe VOY Doc wasn't the only one that became sentient, so it is possible that Starfleet had a real problem to deal with. If, perhaps due to a programming error, the EMH1 could become sentient, then maybe any EMH1 could, so any EMH1 that had ever been activated was therefore considered legally 'alive' so to simply deactivate and delete would be akin to murder. Therefore, what could be done with them, since unlike Doc, there were no other mobile emitters, so they had to be kept in an environment equipped with holoemitters. Also, given the personality issues with them, they couldnt necessarily be trusted to become as agreeable as VOY Doc, so to farm them off to remote colonies and research stations probably as not a good idea.

Slavery is wrong, but given the limitations of what could be done with them, maybe there wasn't much else that could be done. I would assume that because the EMH1's were reasonably aware of the state of the Federation at that point in time, the 'bottle environment' as given to Moriarty would not work as it would need to be too complex. (I wuld not be surprised if Morarty's environment was set to pursuade him to get to 'Earth' and settle down with his GF and retire to a country house somewhere, as this would reduce data loading, but of course, Moriarty would be none the wiser.

Given the reaction of the EMH2 to Doctor's 'additions' to his program, and keenness to experience more than just being a doctor, it looks likely that the same sentience error was made with the EMH2 as well.

Maybe they had to make an EMH3 with some kind of safeguard to prevent sentience emerging, to make sure that the problem of retirement of surplus sentient holo-people was not repeated.

 

[Melakon]

Why didn't they turn them into actual mining machines rather than people shape.

I'm guessing the real world reason is that they wanted to use Picardo.

But I totally agree. I really, really hate when they show the EMHs as miners.

The problem with the scene is it harkens back to the scene with Guinan and Picard in "Measure of Man". Starfleet hopes to create more Datas, which Guinan describes as the potential for generations of disposable people. Which is exactly the problem with the mining scene. If they had been reconfigured as holographic mining machines, it's even worse because they still have self awareness and know they used to resemble humans. If their subroutines are removed so that they are not self aware, it's like a lobotomy to make them compliant with how Starfleet can make them do anything it pleases.

Regardless of how they intended that final scene to play, Starleet condones building artificial beings as slaves.

 

[Richard Baker]

I always thought instead of miners the Mk1 holograms would make excellent Security Personnel. Working knowledge of human and alien physiology, computer speed and unlimited strength. They could also become immaterial and modify themselves with external weaponry, spikes and pointy things. The scene when the Doctor is on the run and the Voyager crew can do almost nothing to stop him was an eye opener. Why waste all that potential just digging up rocks?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Too many git conflicts.

When they tried to rebase the doctor with MKII they got a lot of lines like this:

<<<<HEAD
singOpera();
loveSeven();
ECH();
====
beNiceToPeople();
growHair();
>>>>MKII-personality

They had to revert the commit.

 

[Melakon]

Since the Voyager EMH customized himself, and a reaction of disbelief was heard from his successor, we can guess that the EMH Mk II did not have a Dick Subroutine.

 

[vulcan redshirt]

At first the EMH was a dick subroutine

 

[JirinPanthosa]

The EMH was not sentient in Caretaker, he became sentient at some point in the first couple seasons as his program grew.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Don't forget that there is probably also a question of grunt.

Advances in data compression means that larger programs can be run (ran?) faster.

It would be like sticking a sewing machine engine inside a Ford Pickup.



Considering the Doctor seems sentient right at the beginning, lets just sau that there is an illusion of sentience for entertainments sake of t he crew.

The "Data" experience.

"Oh you're more human than you think."

"No I'm not."

"Yes you are, you are brimming with emotion."

"No, I really, really am not."

"Well, that's a very human thing to say."



I would argue that the illusion of sentience just got more complex as time went by, but it was all following preset course as determined by Barclay and Zimmerman to keep stop any crew on a deep space mission from going space crazy.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

You could make the same argument about neurons and the illusion of human sentience.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You mean that God is a bastard?

Everything you do is because a cranktemperous puppet master in the clouds is pulling your strings?

You're only giving me shit because god is forcing you to give me shit and I shouldn't be angry with you at all, because it's just god being a dick. Of course if I was going to be angry at you, then I'm only doing it because God is making me, and you're only being attacked because god made you provoke me into tearing you a new one.

Free will? Fuck yeah!

When you used to play with your GI Joes by yourself, what percentage of the time did Cobra win?

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I'm 'giving you shit' because the electrochemical impulses flying around in my brain, based on experience and external stimuli, have produced the behavior of doing so.

And I suppose you are 'Giving me shit' because the part of your brain that applies a social filter when communicating on the internet was never fully developed.

I don't believe that 'Who I am is the result of electrochemical impulses in my brain' makes our lives any less special or unique than 'Who I am is a result of a magic thing called a soul that's attached to my meat somehow'. But if sapience is the result of neurochemistry then electric circuitry could potentially produce the same effect.

 

[Guy Gardener]

I have a defective soul?

Is there a manufactures warranty I don't know about?

Have you seen DS9 Badda Bing, Badda bang?

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Badda-Bing,_Badda-Bang_(episode)

The Vic Fonatine holoprogram had been running for a year or so, when preset requirements were met (Every one got too comfortable with the status quo.) which unlocked a new series of events (A gangster took over the casino and beat Vic to within an inch of his life every night.) which changed how the crew interacted with Vic's program and the environment surrounding Vic, which (briefly) created a new status quo .

A holoauthor can leave many time sensitive triggers in a program that will come into play "whenever" they decide that it will be amusing/entertaining for the crew. Which is something Zimmerman described as being a key aspect to the program's ability to soothe the crew into a placid efficient state in Dr Bashir I presume?