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The message we send our kids about gender in 2011...

There's a blog called http://raisingmyrainbow.com/ in which a woman writes about her experiences raising what she calls a "gender-creative" child that's quite a fascinating read and very germane to this topic.

In short, she has two sons, the older of whom likes the usual boy things and the younger lives for Disney princesses and sparkly cupcakes and anything pink and pretty. She's absolutely determined to let the younger boy enjoy what he enjoys and develop however he wants, but she writes about some of the challenges they face as a family in trying to do so.

One of the interesting questions the blog raises is the point where gender identity meets sexual orientation. The boy is only 4, too early to make any definite judgements about what his sexual orientation will be. But the fact is that a lot of people will assume, even if they accept a boy playing with princesses, that he will grow up to be gay. And there's a lot of discussion about whether that's a valid assumption to make.

Does a boy liking girl things automatically make him gay? Does a girl liking boy things make her a lesbian? Of course not, but "common wisdom" might say the averages are in that direction.

As for me, I'm a gay man. My toys when I was growing up were Transformers, Lego, Meccano, technical things like that. My interests were science and how things work. The stereotypical "boy" interest in sports passed me by completely, which some might say is a "gay" trait, but neither was I interested in girly things like Barbies and pretty dresses.

My sister now has two children - a boy of 10 and a girl of 8. The boy has many of the same interests as me - science, space, building things - but unlike me he definitely is interested in sports. In fact he's already only a step away from being a karate black belt. The girl is extremely girly - anything pink and sparkly is good. She has very strong ideas about what she wants to wear and wants to be either a singer or a vet. So both of them are very firmly within the assumed interests for their gender. But I've never had any sense that my sister is forcing them to do anything they don't want to do. It's entirely the children's choice - they just happen to have chosen exactly what people might have expected them to.

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You can't have adventures with a football.

Tom Hanks disagrees with this sentiment...

Castaway.jpg
 
Milo--about your kitchen example...is it me, or is that kind of ironic in light of how cooking is actually portrayed in some venues as this uber-masculine thing to do, like in Iron Chef and Hell's Kitchen? Or is it that there's a difference between doing it as a profession--considered "acceptable," and cooking for your family, which is considered in some weird way to be less dignified and a strictly female thing to do?

Yes, it's that weird dichotomy between "Iron Chef" and "meatloaf for the family". It's not a big problem in my family because my fairly traditional and conservative dad loves to cook. And I'm usually the one that cooks supper for our family at home, and my son loves to watch and help. The play kitchen thing isn't so separated, though it bothers me that they'll still have pink girls kitchens and blue boys kitchens. Our real kitchen is yellow with black appliances, wood cabinets, and a beautiful skylight in the ceiling.
 
When I was a kid, way back in Medieval times, I like Matchbox cars, trains and Legos. Yes, I liked Barbies, but I was more interested in sending the dolls down our steep hill, strapped into my sister's roller skates. And at school, I was teased mercilessly for it. I was "weird."

I had thought we had advanced some from those times, but after shopping for my nieces and nephew, I can tell you that very little has changed.


I buried my barbies hoping they would decompose and leave behind 11" skeletons. they only got green and moldy - but mom was thrilled at first when I asked for more. no need to tell her why . . .

I think girls who grow up around boys are allowed to navigate between the two notions more easily than ever - I loved jumping off the garage and hooking all the bikes and wagons together and riding them down the hill and legos and gi joe and backyard baseball. I also loved reading and sewing and other girly things.

I think boys are still often encouraged to do "boy" things and that actually limits the way they develop as people. That those kinds of limits will ultimately shape the person they become seems to tragically escape some parents.
 
I think boys are still often encouraged to do "boy" things and that actually limits the way they develop as people. That those kinds of limits will ultimately shape the person they become seems to tragically escape some parents.

These days I think this is more of a concern than the restrictions on girls. The message has got out there that girls are capable of being smart and tough and shouldn't be restricted to a dream of staying at home and raising the kids (says the ex-software developer who's staying at home and raising her kids :alienblush: my sister works for the UK government though so that helps :D). So there are outlets and role models for girls.

But for a boy who wants to play dress-up and families? There's nothing for that aimed at boys.
 
Gender roles, at least when it comes to playtime, is going the way of the dodo, and I'm glad for it. It's absurd to force children to divide their preferences into a box that may not fit them, and may not be healthy in having to choose. I am a 31 year old male, and I love My Little Pony. Somehow this makes me odd or off kilter. It's no different than when I was young. When I was little, I played with any kind of toy, regardless of whether it was the “right” kind of toy for my gender. I liked Thundercats, Silverhawks, G.I. Joe, and Ghost Busters, but I also liked Barbie, J.E.M., Strawberry Shortcake, and Punky Brewster. I didn't care one bit whether those things were meant for boys or girls. I just knew I liked them, which is as it should be.


My 4 year old niece loves playing with my ponies, she even gave me a pony. We play “tea time”, “tour guide”, we color in her coloring books, and she always wants me to color in the rainbows because she thinks they're pretty and she likes the way I color them. In her eyes, it's normal that I play these games with her. Yet some people would call this wrong and chide me for it. How foolish they are for limiting themselves to one little box in which to play. How dull their lives must be.

Well to be blunt, those are all indicators of a sexual predator (interest in kids toys, collection and display of kids toys, interacting with kids using the toys) which why I guess it worries some people.

Now let's be clear I'm not saying in any way, shape or form that you are a sex predator or anything of that nature but simply that sadly for you, your hobbies overlap with common indicators (and there are a lot which is why it's such a complex issue) that people look for and that is why you are getting this reaction off people.
What's your source for this claim? Cite, please.
 
Maestro;5168610. said:
She loves to scream "Hit somebody! Anybody! Everybody!" in the middle of a hockey game.

That's brilliant! :guffaw:

Does she also yell "That's debatable" at UW games after a power play expires?
 
Maestro;5168610. said:
She loves to scream "Hit somebody! Anybody! Everybody!" in the middle of a hockey game.

That's brilliant! :guffaw:

Does she also yell "That's debatable" at UW games after a power play expires?
Yes. We also yell, "That's debatable" when the PA says, "One minute remaining in the period." Her Daddy was a good UW Band member.

There are some Dubuque Fighting Saints season ticket holders who are afraid when we're seated in their section.
 
When I was a lad, I strongly preferred She-Ra to He-Man.

One kid called me gay. Looking back, and considering Prince Adam's oiled pectorals flexing beneath the bondage harness, emblazoned with the cross of a monastic order, I'm not sure he understood what the term meant.
Back in the 60s, I used to buy Supergirl comics all the time. My Uncles would tell me it was a girl's book. Hello? It featured a cute blonde in a miniskirt. :rommie:
Indeed. My main point is it's very arbitrary how these sort of things get typed by gender. "Why are you watching The Little Mermaid for the thirtieth time?" I mean, you can certainly respond "I identify with Ariel's isolation and loneliness" or whatever, but "Because Ariel is naked in it for 32.6 seconds, scantily clad much of the rest of it, and in the end a giant monster gets gruesomely impaled on a wooden stake" is an equally valid answer. It's for the girls!

ORSE said:
I think boys are still often encouraged to do "boy" things and that actually limits the way they develop as people. That those kinds of limits will ultimately shape the person they become seems to tragically escape some parents.

No kidding. It's pretty pernicious. I think it'll be better in the future, but the future isn't helping me today. Too many people are programmed to interpret actions through a gendered prism, especially in these parts.

It's bizarre to be called both girly and chauvinist in the span of a day in your adult life, and yet it happens.
 
The stereotypical "boy" interest in sports passed me by completely, which some might say is a "gay" trait, but neither was I interested in girly things like Barbies and pretty dresses.
The interest in sports passed me by as well and I'm straight. Although there were those in my family who thought otherwise. :D

I buried my barbies hoping they would decompose and leave behind 11" skeletons.
That's fantastic. :rommie:

When I was a lad, I strongly preferred She-Ra to He-Man.

One kid called me gay. Looking back, and considering Prince Adam's oiled pectorals flexing beneath the bondage harness, emblazoned with the cross of a monastic order, I'm not sure he understood what the term meant.
Back in the 60s, I used to buy Supergirl comics all the time. My Uncles would tell me it was a girl's book. Hello? It featured a cute blonde in a miniskirt. :rommie:
Indeed. My main point is it's very arbitrary how these sort of things get typed by gender. "Why are you watching The Little Mermaid for the thirtieth time?" I mean, you can certainly respond "I identify with Ariel's isolation and loneliness" or whatever, but "Because Ariel is naked in it for 32.6 seconds, scantily clad much of the rest of it, and in the end a giant monster gets gruesomely impaled on a wooden stake" is an equally valid answer. It's for the girls!
Those are all reasons I love Little Mermaid. Also, the great animation. :bolian:
 
Those are all reasons I love Little Mermaid. Also, the great animation. :bolian:

Also some bitchin' songs.

I wanna live under the sea.

Who doesn't?
The Brodies?

Deranged Nasat said:
No, no, no. The correct answer is "Poor Unfortunate Souls" :D

The villain always gets the best song.

True for The Lion King. Non-Disney but close enough, it's also true for Anastasia. Little Mermaid's best song is "Part of That World," although "Kiss the Girl" and "Under the Sea" are both contenders. I don't even remember the music from Beauty and the Beast (OH GOD I looked it up and now I be our guest be our guest be our guest be our guest be our guest:scream:).

Did Jafar even get a song? I don't recall one.
 
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