The message we send our kids about gender in 2011...

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Nerys Ghemor, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. DS9Continuing

    DS9Continuing Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's a blog called http://raisingmyrainbow.com/ in which a woman writes about her experiences raising what she calls a "gender-creative" child that's quite a fascinating read and very germane to this topic.

    In short, she has two sons, the older of whom likes the usual boy things and the younger lives for Disney princesses and sparkly cupcakes and anything pink and pretty. She's absolutely determined to let the younger boy enjoy what he enjoys and develop however he wants, but she writes about some of the challenges they face as a family in trying to do so.

    One of the interesting questions the blog raises is the point where gender identity meets sexual orientation. The boy is only 4, too early to make any definite judgements about what his sexual orientation will be. But the fact is that a lot of people will assume, even if they accept a boy playing with princesses, that he will grow up to be gay. And there's a lot of discussion about whether that's a valid assumption to make.

    Does a boy liking girl things automatically make him gay? Does a girl liking boy things make her a lesbian? Of course not, but "common wisdom" might say the averages are in that direction.

    As for me, I'm a gay man. My toys when I was growing up were Transformers, Lego, Meccano, technical things like that. My interests were science and how things work. The stereotypical "boy" interest in sports passed me by completely, which some might say is a "gay" trait, but neither was I interested in girly things like Barbies and pretty dresses.

    My sister now has two children - a boy of 10 and a girl of 8. The boy has many of the same interests as me - science, space, building things - but unlike me he definitely is interested in sports. In fact he's already only a step away from being a karate black belt. The girl is extremely girly - anything pink and sparkly is good. She has very strong ideas about what she wants to wear and wants to be either a singer or a vet. So both of them are very firmly within the assumed interests for their gender. But I've never had any sense that my sister is forcing them to do anything they don't want to do. It's entirely the children's choice - they just happen to have chosen exactly what people might have expected them to.

    .
     
  2. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Tom Hanks disagrees with this sentiment...

    [​IMG]
     
  3. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, it's that weird dichotomy between "Iron Chef" and "meatloaf for the family". It's not a big problem in my family because my fairly traditional and conservative dad loves to cook. And I'm usually the one that cooks supper for our family at home, and my son loves to watch and help. The play kitchen thing isn't so separated, though it bothers me that they'll still have pink girls kitchens and blue boys kitchens. Our real kitchen is yellow with black appliances, wood cabinets, and a beautiful skylight in the ceiling.
     
  4. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

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    :shifty:

    That's a volleyball.
     
  5. KimMH

    KimMH Drinking your old posts Premium Member

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    I buried my barbies hoping they would decompose and leave behind 11" skeletons. they only got green and moldy - but mom was thrilled at first when I asked for more. no need to tell her why . . .

    I think girls who grow up around boys are allowed to navigate between the two notions more easily than ever - I loved jumping off the garage and hooking all the bikes and wagons together and riding them down the hill and legos and gi joe and backyard baseball. I also loved reading and sewing and other girly things.

    I think boys are still often encouraged to do "boy" things and that actually limits the way they develop as people. That those kinds of limits will ultimately shape the person they become seems to tragically escape some parents.
     
  6. trampledamage

    trampledamage Clone Admiral

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    These days I think this is more of a concern than the restrictions on girls. The message has got out there that girls are capable of being smart and tough and shouldn't be restricted to a dream of staying at home and raising the kids (says the ex-software developer who's staying at home and raising her kids :alienblush: my sister works for the UK government though so that helps :D). So there are outlets and role models for girls.

    But for a boy who wants to play dress-up and families? There's nothing for that aimed at boys.
     
  7. Servo

    Servo Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Looks like a football to me. Given it was a joke anyway, who cares?
     
  8. nightwind1

    nightwind1 Commodore Commodore

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    What's your source for this claim? Cite, please.
     
  9. the 4th hanson bro

    the 4th hanson bro No one can resist my Schweddy Balls Admiral

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    That's brilliant! :guffaw:

    Does she also yell "That's debatable" at UW games after a power play expires?
     
  10. Maestro

    Maestro Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yes. We also yell, "That's debatable" when the PA says, "One minute remaining in the period." Her Daddy was a good UW Band member.

    There are some Dubuque Fighting Saints season ticket holders who are afraid when we're seated in their section.
     
  11. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Indeed. My main point is it's very arbitrary how these sort of things get typed by gender. "Why are you watching The Little Mermaid for the thirtieth time?" I mean, you can certainly respond "I identify with Ariel's isolation and loneliness" or whatever, but "Because Ariel is naked in it for 32.6 seconds, scantily clad much of the rest of it, and in the end a giant monster gets gruesomely impaled on a wooden stake" is an equally valid answer. It's for the girls!

    No kidding. It's pretty pernicious. I think it'll be better in the future, but the future isn't helping me today. Too many people are programmed to interpret actions through a gendered prism, especially in these parts.

    It's bizarre to be called both girly and chauvinist in the span of a day in your adult life, and yet it happens.
     
  12. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    The interest in sports passed me by as well and I'm straight. Although there were those in my family who thought otherwise. :D

    That's fantastic. :rommie:

    Those are all reasons I love Little Mermaid. Also, the great animation. :bolian:
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Eddie Izzard concerts? :D
     
  14. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Also some bitchin' songs.

    I wanna live under the sea.
     
  15. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

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    Who doesn't?
     
  16. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    No, no, no. The correct answer is "Poor Unfortunate Souls" :D

    The villain always gets the best song.
     
  17. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Admiral

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    It's consolation for them getting killed 30 minutes later.
     
  18. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Brodies?

    True for The Lion King. Non-Disney but close enough, it's also true for Anastasia. Little Mermaid's best song is "Part of That World," although "Kiss the Girl" and "Under the Sea" are both contenders. I don't even remember the music from Beauty and the Beast (OH GOD I looked it up and now I be our guest be our guest be our guest be our guest be our guest:scream:).

    Did Jafar even get a song? I don't recall one.
     
  19. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He had a short one, but it kinda sucked.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_FguEpJ3fo[/yt]
     
  20. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    Yeah, Sebastian rocks. :mallory: