The merged and improved (?) KIC 8462852 thread

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I just don't understand Dryson's thought processes. Perhaps it's because I've never studied educational psychology so I don't know where to start illuminating the darkness.

He appears to think the distance of the occulting bodies from the star makes a difference. However, if the bodies are much less distant from the star (assuming small fractions of a light year based on the observations) than they are from the solar system (1480 light years), then it makes little difference to the subtended solid angle as measured from the solar system.

I'm not even going to try to explain what a solid angle is to him...

 

[Silvercrest]

You should go proselytize some place else.

This thread is here for discussion. Explaining something that goes against your personal preconceived notions: that isn't proselytizing, it's education — if you're willing to learn.

 

[Dryson]

You should go proselytize some place else.

This thread is here for discussion. Explaining something that goes against your personal preconceived notions: that isn't proselytizing, it's education — if you're willing to learn.

There is nothing educational about religion. Proselytizing is nothing more than teaching someone to be how you are. That isn't an education that is Narcissism

 

[Dryson]

I just don't understand Dryson's thought processes. Perhaps it's because I've never studied educational psychology so I don't know where to start illuminating the darkness.

He appears to think the distance of the occulting bodies from the star makes a difference. However, if the bodies are much less distant from the star (assuming small fractions of a light year based on the observations) than they are from the solar system (1480 light years), then it makes little difference to the subtended solid angle as measured from the solar system.

I'm not even going to try to explain what a solid angle is to him...

It you want to teach then start a thread to teach. You never use any of your own drawings to begin with Asbo Zaprudder so how can you instruct someone if you can't even put your discussion into hand written form of images and objects for everyone to look at? Words do not create reality. You have to use images to convey what you are meaning otherwise you are merely acting like a preacher.

Now back on topic.

Since the objects that caused the dims of KIC are huge and the community has determined that the dims were not caused by planets and the idea of a huge comet swarm being just as disagreeable until the supposed comet swarm is detected again causing a dim in the light of KIC then ideas regarding space-time affecting the dim should be encouraged.

The best idea for non-celestial objects causing the dim would be a CMB. If the dim's are proven to be CMB's then it could open a new era for astronomy in trying to figure out how a CMB moves through space which would make a CMB affected by gravity or at least a new interaction between the CMB and the Void that 6 to 10 billion light years in size.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

It you want to teach then start a thread to teach. You never use any of your own drawings to begin with Asbo Zaprudder so how can you instruct someone if you can't even put your discussion into hand written form of images and objects for everyone to look at? Words do not create reality. You have to use images to convey what you are meaning otherwise you are merely acting like a preacher.

Not seeing any images from your side, brother, apart from a hot link to a site you don't own.

Pax vobiscum.

 

[Silvercrest]

It you want to teach then start a thread to teach.

And if you want to learn, then listen to someone else besides yourself.

 

[Dryson]

It you want to teach then start a thread to teach.

And if you want to learn, then listen to someone else besides yourself.

Sorry Silvercrest learning about stars and space is not about listening in a non-educational environment but discovering for ones self through reading.

We are not brothers.

 

[Dryson]

http://phys.org/news/2015-10-mysterious-star-controversy.html

Another system KIC 4110611 also had a similar irregular light curve that later turned out to be the result of a five star system. With the comparison of KIC 4119611 and KIC 8462852 both having similar irregular light curves then the dim in light of KIC 8462852 would most likely be the result of a higher population of stars in the same system as KIC 8462852.

 

[Silvercrest]

We are not brothers.

And for that I am eternally grateful. Thank you for clarifying.

 

[{ Emilia }]

How about you both stop baiting each other, I'm losing my patience. And you know what happens when kitty loses her patience.

I was just relaxing a little when I saw this.

Now I'm watching you guys.

Trying to keep you from doing this again:

But if that fails you all know how it'll end:

 

[Silvercrest]

Will do.

 

[Dryson]

Another question that I have is this. When Earth transits across our own Sun do the millions of satellites in orbit around Earth cause an increase in the dim of the Sun at all?

How does Earth look now in 2016 transiting across the Sun with all of the satellites in orbit compared to a transit around the Sun where Earth does not have any satellites in orbit.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

When the Earth transits the Sun, it's called night. The ISS experiences it 15 or so times per 24 hours. There are about 2,300 satellites in orbit plus space junk. They will block some light if they transit the Sun but even big ones like the ISS might not generate a noticeable shadow on the Earth due to refraction effects. Here are a couple of pictures of the ISS in transit:
https://astrowright.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/iss_atlantis_transit2_2010.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/110602-coslog-iss2-530p.photoblog900.jpg

 

[Dryson]

When the Earth transits the Sun, it's called night. The ISS experiences it 15 or so times per 24 hours. There are about 2,300 satellites in orbit plus space junk. They will block some light if they transit the Sun but even big ones like the ISS might not generate a noticeable shadow on the Earth due to refraction effects. Here are a couple of pictures of the ISS in transit:
https://astrowright.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/iss_atlantis_transit2_2010.jpg
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/110602-coslog-iss2-530p.photoblog900.jpg

The question was what would the Earth look like in a transit around the Sun with the satellites in orbit around Earth? Would the satellites create an artificial dim compared to a natural dim? Not what the ISS looks like in a transit across the Sun.

The reason that I ask is this. If a planet lets say the size of Jupiter is found and is mistaken as a Gas Giant could a large swarm of satellites orbiting the planet cause the mistaken identification of the planet as being a Gas Giant when it might be a Super Earth because of the dim that might occur because of the large swarm of artificial satellites in orbit around the Super Earth?

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

No pleasing you, is there... I was just pointing out how tiny the largest man-made satellite is when seen in transit. The answer to your question is virtually no dimming. Some people have proposed using artificial solar shades, mirrors, lenses etc. to counteract anthropogenic warming. Those would, of course, reduce solar insolation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

A planet the size of Jupiter is likely to be a gas giant, as that's what Jupiter is. Super earths are only a couple of time the earth's diameters at most. A swarm of satellites - if natural, then what you have is likely to look similar to Saturn's rings - if artificial, that's science fiction and the sky's the limit. Sure, imagine as many artificial satellites as you want.

 

[Dryson]

No pleasing you, is there... I was just pointing out how tiny the largest man-made satellite is when seen in transit. The answer to your question is virtually no dimming. Some people have proposed using artificial solar shades, mirrors, lenses etc. to counteract anthropogenic warming. Those would, of course, reduce solar insolation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_sunshade

A planet the size of Jupiter is likely to be a gas giant, as that's what Jupiter is. Super earths are only a couple of time the earth's diameters at most. A swarm of satellites - if natural, then what you have is likely to look similar to Saturn's rings - if artificial, that's science fiction and the sky's the limit. Sure, imagine as many artificial satellites as you want.

Once again I was not talking about moons which are called natural satellites as well. Artificial satellites are just that, communication satellites, weather satellites, atmospheric satellites, etc. If a Super Earth had a population of satellites orbiting it from a distance would the satellites actually add more diameter to the planet thus causing it to be potentially classified as a Gas Giant because of the dim it would cause as it transited across its sun?

 

[Silvercrest]

No.

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

I think the aliens are mooning us.

 

[Dryson]

The interesting issue with KIC is that before the first dim of 15% occurred there were numerous smaller dims in the light of KIC that were within the range of Jupiter and and Super Earth sized planets. I don't think that comet fragments would come before the actual comet causing the small dims before the larger 15% dim.

Here is the paper written by Tabetha Boyajian - http://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.03622.pdf

 

[sojourner]

Swarm of comets. Not one big comet.