The Matrix Revolutions

[Yassim]

In my mind, most importantly, the original ends with Neo back from the dead, having healed himself from several gunshot wounds. He then fights off three agents effortlessly and destroys Smith. It's clear he's now omnipotent within the Matrix - he's freed his mind and is no longer constrained by the rules of the Matrix.

The sequels downgrade him to "quite strong, quite quick, flies". They seem to backtrack for the sake of spinning things out.

 

[stj]

A lot of this discussion seems to be premised on the notion that Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions are really two separate movies. Despite the different names, the two are no more separate stories than Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi. Reloaded and Revolutions aren't even separated by
a pause in the action! Regardless of whether a sequel was hoped for before The Matrix was made, when Reloaded was made, Revolutions was part of it.

People seem to forget there are two resurrections in The Matrix, first when Tank rises from the dead to blast Cypher. Only then is Neo resurrected to kill Smith. This happens because the soundtrack is blasting really, really triumphal music. I submit that this is all so silly as to make the climax of The Matrix trite. The gungho slaughter of the innocents makes the first movie unpleasant as well. Also, most of the action in The Matrix is put into play by the Oracle, about whom we know nothing, especially her motives. Which means a lot of the action is basically unmotivated, which is not good. The original is highly overrated in my opinion.

How does the Oracle know that Cypher will fail to kill Neo's sleeping body? The Machine World is Reality. Zion is part of the Machine World, and as a program in the Machine World, she has access to information in Zion and its ships to process for her oracles. The machinery that sustains Zion may have been put in human control as part of the equilibrating system for the Matrix, but they were created by the Machines. Zion is part of Reality instead of just being another Matrix.

The sequel(s) fill us in on details that solve some of the nonsense in the first movie. The question is whether the sequel(s) are entertaining and/or interesting. For my part, there's no question of it being profound. The philosophical notions it plays with I find fundamentally nonsensical. But they are relatively novel and serve for a few hours of entertainment.

I find the rave scene effectively celebrates the dirtiness of life, including sexuality. (The contrasting scene in Club Hell I find a little offensive but it's mercifully brief.)

The siege of Zion may focus on quickly sketched characters. But I feel a basic empathy with them regardless, so the spectacular scenes also have some emotional impact. Whatever emotional impact in the resurrection scene in The Matrix has comes strictly from Keanu Reeves' performance in my opinion.

(From the sequel we could think that Neo-as-program is saved in the machine world, and it automatically reboots, restoring brain function to the human body.

And when the body is prematurely access the programs, Neo-as-program is ejected from the Machine World as a malfunctioning program and ends up in the train station where the Stationmaster smuggles obsolete or rejected programs into the Matrix.

Smith also becomes a combination of program and human, but unlike Neo, he goes from the Matrix to the Real World. As champion of the stasis of the Matrix his advent threatens the Machines World as well as the Matrix.

When Smith hacks into Neo's Matrix avatar, he hacks into the human form as well, or Neo will no more die than he did in the first movie. But Neo's human form is also connected to the Machine, the reason he could stop the Machines in the real world too. Smith basically opens an email with a virus attached. The End.)

 

[Holdfast]

You know, at the end of Reloaded, the strong indication is that Zion ain't real either

No, that's an incorrect fan theory that has no basis in the films themselves. Like it or not, it seems that there may be some degree of magic in the series' real world.

Oh, I know it's incorrent. But at the end of Reloaded, that was the obvious conclusion, because the alternative was stupid.

+1

(and it was my theory, too! )

It had some questions and maybe even a degree of an attempt to make sense. Revolutions had crap all.

I agree. Reloaded made internal sense, asked some interesting questions, and the story and fights were all excellent. I really enjoyed Reloaded and looked forward to Revolutions.

Serious letdown.

I've rewatched Revolutions a couple of times since then, and can appreciate certain parts much more (the Zion battle especially). But as a story, and even more relevantly, as a conclusion to Reloaded, it still fails miserably.

 

[Unicron]

I'm in the same boat myself. Revolutions is my least favorite, and I liked the first two. I do agree one potential issue with doing sequels is that The Matrix has an ending that can very easily be a good stand-alone one. I thought Reloaded did a nice job of following up some of that setup.

 

[Joel_Kirk]

My major gripe is that The Matrix (as some have already pointed out) is a film that pretty much is able to stand alone.

The Matrix itself, Morpheus, had a sense of mystery before the sequels...

Trinity was also hot....

With that said, the final battle scene in Revolutions was interesting; I did like the fact that majority of the people of Zion were 'of color'...Monica Bellucci was hot in that leather outfit (or outfits) of hers....

Still, one can watch The Matrix and be done with the series....or at least 'satisfied' with that movie alone.

 

[Mr Light]

With the glaring exception of the Rave scene, I thought the first two movies were perfection. Reloaded was a wonderful sequel that built and elaborated on the world without repeating. I think the revelation with the Architect was an absolutely amazing twist. Revolutions, however, was very disappointing. The series is defined by the incredible in-Matrix fights. Here we get one brief one in Hel and then the Superman fight at the end. Bane is not an interesting side-quest. While the Siege of Zion looks cool and all, I'd rather be seeing kung fu Superman. Morpheus and Trinity are completely side-lined. The promise of the Merovingian and Persephone from #2 goes absolutely nowhere. The only truly cool surprise I really enjoyed was the revelation that the Oracle created Neo AND Smith to force a break in the cycle of war. But that only reminds me that (unfortunately) we had to have a new actress in this very vital role.

 

[Campe]

You know what bothers me about the Matrix sequels? Trinity's death. In Reloaded, Trinity has a great death where she actually sacrificed herself to further the story, only to be brought back. In Revolutions she was impaled by a pole, really doing very little in the film. Her sacrifice in Reloaded COULD have been the catalyst to drive Neo into the third film... but thats not how the Wachowskis saw it.

 

[Mr Light]

That's a good point. She didn't do much in #3 except the quickie Hel fight and then die. Still it was her suicidal love that convinced Merv to let them get Neo but they could have gone another route.

 

[TheBrew]

Initially, I liked Revolutions better than Reloaded, but after a few years, I'm liking Reloaded a whole lot better. I was just really put off by the playground fight scene in Reloaded because it was just bad CGI.

 

[T'Baio]

I really don't understand the hatred for the rave scene.

I hate the fact that at the end of The Matrix, Neo seems able to bend the "reality" of the Matrix at will, flexing the walls around him, but in Reloaded, there's barely a noticeable difference anymore. He can fly, but he's still making an effort to fight agents. Oh, right, "upgrades." Then how come Morpheus can take on agents now, too? And while going to see the Merovingian, Neo sees through wall and floors, reading the code of the Matrix to see that all the levels are wired with explosives...this is an ability that seems to come and go. There are other times in the films he should have been able to use this ability to solve some problems, but suddenly he no longer has this ability. There is just absolutely no consistency in the sequels.

 

[Kegg]

^
The rave scene is long and annoying? That's pretty much my beef with it. I was bored out of my skull, I don't watch a Matrix film to see a big party.

 

[T'Baio]

It was a little long, yes, but as far as I'm concerned, it had it's point and it made it well. I just don't understand the hatred directed at it like it's the downfall of The Matrix Trilogy when there are far more important idiocies to be found.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I really enjoyed the second film and wasn't bothered by the rave scene. I'd even heard about it going in, forewarned how awful it was, and when I saw it I was surprised that it hadn't destroyed the whole movie. It was, at least, tolerable.

The third film was a letdown mostly because it was so straightforward. It seemed as though we were being set up for some crucial revelations by the end of Reloaded, but instead we just got a bunch of shit blowing up. It was visually impressive, but there was no meat, no story to speak of. A lot of wasted potential.

 

[Trent Roman]

I hate the fact that at the end of The Matrix, Neo seems able to bend the "reality" of the Matrix at will, flexing the walls around him, but in Reloaded, there's barely a noticeable difference anymore. He can fly, but he's still making an effort to fight agents. Oh, right, "upgrades." Then how come Morpheus can take on agents now, too? And while going to see the Merovingian, Neo sees through wall and floors, reading the code of the Matrix to see that all the levels are wired with explosives...this is an ability that seems to come and go. There are other times in the films he should have been able to use this ability to solve some problems, but suddenly he no longer has this ability. There is just absolutely no consistency in the sequels.

My excuse for that: the films have shown that individuals' ability to manipulate the rules of the Matrix are linked to the extent they believe they can do so. The Neo we met in Reloaded was one entertaining serious self-doubts about his supposed messianic role and whether the prophecy he found himself caught up in was just another form of control; another way to make him a slave to the System. I attribute his varying ability to his fluctuating self-confidence and the strength of his motivations.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[coolghoul]

I am very surprised by this thread.

Mainly because both Reloaded and Revolutions were trashed by the fans. And now Reloaded is finally getting it's due.

I am one of the few who came out of Reloaded more than intrigued with where they were heading with the whole thing. To me, the series wasn't destroyed by the second movie, but the third movie made nothing much of all that setup. I expected twists/revelations, tons of weirdness *and* more kung fu in the last movie. I didn't think the last Smith vs Neo fight was very kung fu. (However it did have an awesome background score for the fight). And there were occasions where the CGI really bled thru in that fight - Neo's face looks plastic a lot of times. (He does so in the playground fight too - but it was awesome for the multiple Smiths getting him down).

Reloaded also had awesome Trinity stuff. Somehow Revolutions ignored Trinity by making her sacrifice herself. I think that last confrontation shouldn't have been on Earth but should have been in the Matrix somehow. Maybe a different "level" of the matrix or something. A level where all the "administrator" programs are. Cos what the movie needed more of was a shiny-leather clad Trinity. (And a little less of the mecha fights).

Reloaded had tons of stuff for people to try to read into. What is the Merovingian and what does the causality argument mean, What is the Keymaker, What's the Architect and what's his speech mean. Where does the Oracle fit in and all that. It threw a lot of shiny balls in the air, which made you want to take multiple looks at it to understand more about each item. Revolutions was way too straightforward a movie.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I always liked Reloaded. I saw it in the theater several times--thought it was kickass and really expanded the mythology.

I think a lot of people retroactively trashed Reloaded when Revolutions turned out to be such a disappointment. Unfortunately, that's what happens to trilogies sometimes: a bad conclusion destroys all that came before, for some people. I know some folks have lambasted the LOTR trilogy because they thought the final installment was weak. Just comes with the territory of being a trilogy, I guess.

 

[Dream]

I think a lot of people retroactively trashed Reloaded when Revolutions turned out to be such a disappointment. Unfortunately, that's what happens to trilogies sometimes: a bad conclusion destroys all that came before, for some people. I know some folks have lambasted the LOTR trilogy because they thought the final installment was weak. Just comes with the territory of being a trilogy, I guess.

If Reloaded had have been a noticeable improvement from first movie, I think people would remember the Matrix trilogy more fondly. The wonder of the first movie is gone so they need to make it up with the writing.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Coincidently, I caught some of Matrix Revolutions a few weeks ago on TV, and I mostly concur. I was shocked at how horrible some of the dialogue was, how little dramatic sense the stuff happening made, and how uninteresting it was. I almost fell asleep during the 'climactic fight' between Neo and Mr. Smith, it was just so stupid.

Also, Reloaded did end on an interesting thought-provoking note with that whole speech by the Architect. What happened to all that? Completely forgotten in part 3. WHAT?

At the very least these two movies could have been one decent sequel. Maybe they got caught up in the split-the-movie trend.

 

[Kegg]

Mainly because both Reloaded and Revolutions were trashed by the fans. And now Reloaded is finally getting it's due.

I haven't really seen Reloaded since it was in theatres (parts of it on TV shouldn't count), but this was pretty much my opinion of the movie when I saw it in cinemas.

On this forum there actually was a lot of backtalk at the time Reloaded was released - there were people trashing it and defending it. It's mostly in hindsight - specifically, Revolutions - that those trashing it won and won utterly.

Honestly though, at no point was I a particularly big Matrix fan. I wasn't overwhelmed with the first movie as many seem to have been back then.

 

[Dream]

The one thing I really hated was how they pretty much ignored Smith in Revolutions. He gets like two scenes in the entire movie! They had the very talented Hugo Weaving and they should have given him much more to do. You don't ignore one of your most popular characters like that without having the entire movie suffer. That's like giving Vader only two scenes in ROTJ.