The Master's fate

[Guy Gardener]

Fate = Fair/jumble sale (carboot sale?) + games of chance and civil minded competitions, usually associated with some form of fund raising or charity, churches, schools and the like.

The Master's Fate.

Do I have to go on?

 

[Captain Pike]

Uhh that's spelt FETE...

 

[Starkers]

The Master redeemed himself in The End of Time. He also knows what caused his madness. While I'm sure he'll be back eventually, I hope his morality is a bit more ambiguous when he does show up. I'd rather see his character evolve beyond a simple villain into something more three dimensional.

He took vengeance on the Time Lords, no more no less, he didn't redeem himself and he's still pretty two dimensional for it.

No, he saved The Doctor (or so he thought), Earth and Time. Part of the story of this 2 parter was the redemption of the Master. He condemned himself to being trapped in the Time War and it's conclusion knowing he would share his fate with that of the Time Lords. (besides any other of "our" reasoning that he was redeemed, when he said, "Get out of the way", they started playing "redemption music" .

Oh come on! Five seconds before his "redemption" he was willing to join the Timlords and let Earth and the Doctor die. Only when Rassilon turned him down did he "redeem" himself. Sorry but at that moment he just hated the Timelords more than the Doctor...I'm pretty sure if he could have fought off Rassilon without getting trapped inside the Time lock (assuming he was trapped along with them) he'd have quickly reverted to type and turned his attentions back to the Doctor and taking over the universe!

 

[QCzar]

^I can find no fault in this argument. He didn't say things like "no, I can't let you do this. It's wrong!" or "You know what Doctor, you're right."

He said: "You did this to me!" More in the sense of 'how dare you, I'm the Master'. He didn't so much save the Doctor as he let his hatred and anger overcome what little common sense he has to make certain that this moment would be his, not the Doctor's. Revenge, not redemption.

 

[Photoman15]

He took vengeance on the Time Lords, no more no less, he didn't redeem himself and he's still pretty two dimensional for it.

No, he saved The Doctor (or so he thought), Earth and Time. Part of the story of this 2 parter was the redemption of the Master. He condemned himself to being trapped in the Time War and it's conclusion knowing he would share his fate with that of the Time Lords. (besides any other of "our" reasoning that he was redeemed, when he said, "Get out of the way", they started playing "redemption music" .

Oh come on! Five seconds before his "redemption" he was willing to join the Timlords and let Earth and the Doctor die. Only when Rassilon turned him down did he "redeem" himself. Sorry but at that moment he just hated the Timelords more than the Doctor...I'm pretty sure if he could have fought off Rassilon without getting trapped inside the Time lock (assuming he was trapped along with them) he'd have quickly reverted to type and turned his attentions back to the Doctor and taking over the universe!

Redemption can come on at the drop of a hat, or the sparing of your life (the Doctor shot the diamond instead of the Master to break the link). As the Doctor is condemning the Time Lords to hell, The Master has put it all together. It's the Time Lords that made him crazy, the Doctor is NOT the enemy, the Time Lords are. It only takes a split second to turn a bad guy into a good guy, if the good guy was there all along (pre-vortex induced drumming).

Let's not forget, Star Wars, the whole package, is about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. It took him about a minute to be redeemed, about as long as the Master.

 

[Photoman15]

^I can find no fault in this argument. He didn't say things like "no, I can't let you do this. It's wrong!" or "You know what Doctor, you're right."

He said: "You did this to me!" More in the sense of 'how dare you, I'm the Master'. He didn't so much save the Doctor as he let his hatred and anger overcome what little common sense he has to make certain that this moment would be his, not the Doctor's. Revenge, not redemption.

No, not as in how dare you. He realized he could have been a "normal" () Time Lord had Rassilon (et al) not implanted the drumming in his head. Yes, he was angry, but in the time the Doctor shot the link and when Rassilon was telling the Dr. he was going to die with him, he realized why he was like he was, who did it to him and who the real bad guy (not the Dr.) was.

 

[knine]

I honestly hope they never bring back The Master unless it's a flashback or something along those lines. The ending to his story was done well. He figured out what made him crazy, realized The Doctor was right and he could have been much more, and saved The Doctor at the expence of his own life (more or less). They better not ruin this like they ruined Rose being trapped forever.

 

[Starkers]

^I'm the opposite, I really hope he returns and I really hope he says something along the lines of...

"Guess what, Doctor. No more drums! Yet I still want to kill you and take over the universe." "Guess I was evil all along."

 

[Psion]

Good arguments all around. And were the Master to return, I certainly wouldn't trust him unless he further proves his virtues. But he did save the Doctor's life. Rassilon was about to kill him and the Master interceded.

That scene, that wonderful exchange between Rassilon, the Master, and the Doctor showed the culmination of a lifetime of animosity and betrayal. Watch the Master as he works his way through:

First he learns the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Never-weres ... the war turning to Hell ... has been opened above the Earth. The Master figures he can cope with that and with barely a pause, perhaps tipped by the subversive appeal of Hell on Earth, he quips, "My kind of world."

But nothing can survive that, he learns. Not even the Timelords. They'll initiate the Final Sanction, and the end of time itself. Now the Master looks doubtful. "That's suicide!" But oh, Rassilon plans to ascend to a being of pure will, abandoning creation as it ceases to be. And the Master, true to form suggests, "Take me with you!"

No redemption has taken place yet. The Master is willing to abandon everything and the Doctor to survive. Chaos and destruction still appeal to that one-two-three-four one-two-three-four madness that drives him as long as he survives.

Rassilon will have none of this. He rejects the thought of taking the Master with them and admits to having caused the Master's illness. Now look at the Master's face at this revelation as horrified understanding dawns. And as Rassilon prepares to obliterate the Master once and for all, the Doctor intercedes; putting himself between Rassilon's gauntlet and his tormented victim.

Rassilon and the Master then try to manipulate the Doctor. Each playing upon the Doctor's emotions as though his motivations were anything like theirs. I like that the Master realizes his own death would break the link and send Gallifrey and the Timelords back into the abyss. Cold logic compels him to goad the Doctor to pull the trigger, but at the last moment, emotion wins out and he pleads with a small shake of his head.

The Doctor whirls and points the gun at Rassilon. And the Master gives voice to the realization that the link has two ends. Complex interplay between the Doctor, Rassilon and that woman take place, but that's not relevant to the Master until the Doctor turns again and points the gun at him. Doesn't that look like betrayal on the Master's face? And then the realization when the Doctor tells him to get out of the way. "Out of the way? What's behind-- Oh! Oh, that's very good!"

But redemption still hasn't come.

Rassilon, enraged by the Doctor's actions, prepares to kill him. The chaotic music grows, the woman hides her eyes, the Doctor faces death bravely, and Rassilon levels his malevolent gauntlet to discorporate the troublesome Timelord.

And then, out of focus, the Master rises from behind. The focus shifts and he says, "Get out of the way." Note the calm delivery. The Master isn't frothing with rage, he isn't laughing maniacally, and he isn't even smirking. He's calm. He's reasonable. He's rational. The music shifts from chaos to hope and then to triumph and the Master saves the Doctor.

"You did this to me! You made me! One! Two! Three! Four!" and he vanishes into the abyss with the rest of the rogue Gallifreyans. That final delivery wasn't made in rage or even revenge, it was made in catharsis. Everything that turned the Master to evil came out in that outburst, and with it, he cleansed himself of his madness. The "enmity of the ages" comes to an end.

I don't know when the Master will return. I agree with knine that this is a good end to the Master's story. But I don't think any production team can resist the allure of the Master for much longer than they can the Daleks. I just hope that when they do bring him back, they pay careful attention to the implications of the final minutes of The End of Time. The Master would make a terrible companion for the Doctor, and can any character with the count of millions of dead against him ever be considered one of the good guys? But when he does return, I hope for more ambiguity. More depth.

Newspaper Taxi has a suggestion that might work. The Master attempts to continue on the path of redemption, but just can't get it right. Frustration and envy could provoke a new animosity between the Doctor and the Master, but I'd hate to see the magnificent work done in The End of Time betrayed by an inferior script.

Trial of A Timelord and Waters of Mars suggest another possibillty. What if the Doctor himself turns down the wrong path? The return of the Master might make for a good story to save the Doctor from his own demons.

 

[diankra]

Nice post, Psion. Back in mid 1986 (having heard who he was ahead of time), I was really keen to see the Valeyard as a regular villain, but a well meaning one: eg: the Doctor turns up and finds someone is arranging a military coup on a largely pacifist planet, but the Valeyard is doing it because the Daleks are about to invade the system, and they need to be ready to fight back. Who's right, who's wrong? Who'll save more lives in the long run? A post End of Time Master could play the same role.

PS: Also, the idea that the Master wants power to do good has always been there. In Colony in Space, for instance, he offers to share the Doomsday Machine with the Doctor. Almost as if he thinks he needs someone to stop him...

 

[Photoman15]

Good arguments all around. And were the Master to return, I certainly wouldn't trust him unless he further proves his virtues. ....
yada, yada, yada...
And then, out of focus, the Master rises from behind. The focus shifts and he says, "Get out of the way." Note the calm delivery. The Master isn't frothing with rage, he isn't laughing maniacally, and he isn't even smirking. He's calm. He's reasonable. He's rational. The music shifts from chaos to hope and then to triumph and the Master saves the Doctor.

"You did this to me! You made me! One! Two! Three! Four!" and he vanishes into the abyss with the rest of the rogue Gallifreyans. That final delivery wasn't made in rage or even revenge, it was made in catharsis. Everything that turned the Master to evil came out in that outburst, and with it, he cleansed himself of his madness. The "enmity of the ages" comes to an end.

Excellent post. Exactly how I saw this scene.

 

[David cgc]

First he learns the Skaro Degradations, the Horde of Travesties, the Nightmare Child, the Could-Have-Been King with his army of Meanwhiles and Never-weres ... the war turning to Hell ... has been opened above the Earth. The Master figures he can cope with that and with barely a pause, perhaps tipped by the subversive appeal of Hell on Earth, he quips, "My kind of world."

Incidentally, I always thought his bravado about the abominations of the war was a little amusing, since he apparently wet himself and ran and hid at the end of the universe well before things got anywhere near that bad. I guess even Time Lords have short memories.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

^I'm the opposite, I really hope he returns and I really hope he says something along the lines of...

"Guess what, Doctor. No more drums! Yet I still want to kill you and take over the universe." "Guess I was evil all along."

This must happen.

 

[Starkers]

^I'm the opposite, I really hope he returns and I really hope he says something along the lines of...

"Guess what, Doctor. No more drums! Yet I still want to kill you and take over the universe." "Guess I was evil all along."

This must happen.

Well you know, hopefully once I take over from Moffat it's one of several things I have planned

 

[Photoman15]

I guess that's why they give the big boys these jobs of running shows, not the fanboys.
That would be like Vader/Anakin surviving tossing the Emperor and then telling Luke, Yeah, I'm happy to see you and Leia, but I'm really always was and always will be a bad guy poised to take over the Galaxy. Won't happen.

 

[Starkers]

I guess that's why they give the big boys these jobs of running shows, not the fanboys.
That would be like Vader/Anakin surviving tossing the Emperor and then telling Luke, Yeah, I'm happy to see you and Leia, but I'm really always was and always will be a bad guy poised to take over the Galaxy. Won't happen.

right, because neither RTD or Moffat could ever be called fanboys

Personally even if that was a moment of redemption for the Master, it doesn't excuse all the thousands of people he's killed over the years does it? He hasn't suddenly become good, and even if he returned and wasn't quite as bad as he was before I doubt he'll ever be a true good guy.

And I don't think there's an actual parallel with Vader either. Vader's redemption wasn't a sudden thing it's clearly building all the way through Jedi. Besides, Anakin was originally not a bad person, unlike the Master who's been mad and bad since the age of 8.

I'm not saying there isn't some potential for good in him, Yana was a decent person and you're not telling me the Chameleon arch was completely responsible for that, but if the Master returns, and I reckon he will, I'd lay odds on him being a badguy.

 

[QCzar]

I guess that's why they give the big boys these jobs of running shows, not the fanboys.
That would be like Vader/Anakin surviving tossing the Emperor and then telling Luke, Yeah, I'm happy to see you and Leia, but I'm really always was and always will be a bad guy poised to take over the Galaxy. Won't happen.

You know, attaching a smilie to a statement like that doesn't make it any less smug or pejorative (I'm going to assume that's why you put it there, since it communicates nothing otherwise). The idea that your interpretation of events is right and Starker's is that of a fanboy is really petty.

And who are these "big boys" you refer to? And who is the "they" that give them these jobs? If they're the same "they" and "big boys" that gave us most of nuWho, then they're hardly in the position to be decrying anyone else as a "fanboy".

No matter how many ways you try to collate Star Wars and Dr Who, they're never going to come anywhere close to being the same, other than both being science-fiction fantasy. The Master is the classic, mustache twirling villain of the week (he is one of the original examples of this trope and a pretty unpretentious one at that). Vader neither affects the same kind of persona nor has a similar history (in any but the most superficial of ways). They're no more similar than any other two supervillains that you could randomly pull from any number of other sources.

Some of them have been redeemed, others have not. That you chose one comparison to bolster your opinion does not render any opposing analysis as puerile and erroneous.

 

[DWF]

I'm sure the Master will turn up again when we least expect it.

 

[Photoman15]

I guess that's why they give the big boys these jobs of running shows, not the fanboys.
That would be like Vader/Anakin surviving tossing the Emperor and then telling Luke, Yeah, I'm happy to see you and Leia, but I'm really always was and always will be a bad guy poised to take over the Galaxy. Won't happen.

You know, attaching a smilie to a statement like that doesn't make it any less smug or pejorative (I'm going to assume that's why you put it there, since it communicates nothing otherwise). The idea that your interpretation of events is right and Starker's is that of a fanboy is really petty.

And who are these "big boys" you refer to? And who is the "they" that give them these jobs? If they're the same "they" and "big boys" that gave us most of nuWho, then they're hardly in the position to be decrying anyone else as a "fanboy".

No matter how many ways you try to collate Star Wars and Dr Who, they're never going to come anywhere close to being the same, other than both being science-fiction fantasy. The Master is the classic, mustache twirling villain of the week (he is one of the original examples of this trope and a pretty unpretentious one at that). Vader neither affects the same kind of persona nor has a similar history (in any but the most superficial of ways). They're no more similar than any other two supervillains that you could randomly pull from any number of other sources.

Some of them have been redeemed, others have not. That you chose one comparison to bolster your opinion does not render any opposing analysis as puerile and erroneous.

I wasn't "interpreting events" here, It was in response to if the person who made the remark(s) above me were in charge they bring the master back as still evil. I was be thankful that they are not in charge in as that that is not what I would like to see especially after the event(s) of END OF TIME.

And there is a parallel in Vader and the Master. They both were "good" children/young adult until someone with a greater power manipulated them (Anakin being manipulated by the Emperor and The Master being manipulated by Rassilon) which turned them evil. Anakin was pushed over by the death of Padme (which he caused, accidentally) which was caused by the Emperor (by his setting up the whole scenario). The Master was driven to evil by the drumming in his head (especially since it was implanted in him at a very delicate/critical time, while looking into the schism). They were both brought back (to redemption) by the one person who believed there was good in them (Luke believing that there was still some good in Vader/Anakin and the Doctor who believed the Master could be saved). How much more of a parallel do you need?

 

[iguana_tonante]

The Master figures he can cope with that and with barely a pause, perhaps tipped by the subversive appeal of Hell on Earth, he quips, "My kind of world."

Incidentally, I always thought his bravado about the abominations of the war was a little amusing, since he apparently wet himself and ran and hid at the end of the universe well before things got anywhere near that bad. I guess even Time Lords have short memories.

Actually, I think the slight hesitation before that shows the Master's real feeling: he remembers it very well, and this is why his bravado sounds hollow. He tries to hide the fear behind his usual smug persona, but it's cracking.