The Mark of Gideon?

[Push The Button]

The office building that I work in has a set of restrooms on each floor. "On paper" they are identical; same layout, dimensions, fixtures, tile, paint color.. they were all built at the same time, by the same people. Except they're not all the same, and even though the differences are miniscule, they are there.

And this is just one set of restrooms. I can't even imagine how many differences Kirk would have noticed on a 947-foot long replica of a starship that he's been living and working on for years.

 

[Grant]

Oh, but don't you see he was drugged-- in a daze --- in a fog and was basically stoned the entire episide.
Except of course he is not. It was not written that way, directed that way or acted that way.
But that has to be the answer because otherwise it's just a poorly written nonsensical episode and that just can't be!!!!

 

[BillJ]

Oh, but don't you see he was drugged-- in a daze --- in a fog and was basically stoned the entire episide.
Except of course he is not. It was not written that way, directed that way or acted that way.
But that has to be the answer because otherwise it's just a poorly written nonsensical episode and that just can't be!!!!

Of course it is poorly written and nonsensical. It is a terrible episode. But that doesn't mean we can't have fun with it.

All we have are the original 79. So if we have to pump a few up with our imaginations, what's the harm?

 

[Grant]

Oh, but don't you see he was drugged-- in a daze --- in a fog and was basically stoned the entire episide.
Except of course he is not. It was not written that way, directed that way or acted that way.
But that has to be the answer because otherwise it's just a poorly written nonsensical episode and that just can't be!!!!

Of course it is poorly written and nonsensical. It is a terrible episode. But that doesn't mean we can't have fun with it.

All we have are the original 79. So if we have to pump a few up with our imaginations, what's the harm?

No harm at all. I watch it. I try to find little bits of the "bad" episodes to enjoy. It's TOS I love it.
I get annoyed though when folks say it's not nonsensical and not a poor episode. It's like they want to find some way to justify the fact that they like it.
If you like a crappy episode great. Just don't explain to me that something I knew awful when I was 13---isn't. LOL.
It's a poor episode from the end of the run when passion, ideas money had run out.
Poor Gene Dynarski who played Childress in season one. A meaty part, scenes with both Shatner and Karen Steele reduced to reading 3 lines of dialogue in this episode wearing a cheap bald cap.

 

[Nebusj]

I get annoyed though when folks say it's not nonsensical and not a poor episode. It's like they want to find some way to justify the fact that they like it.

Why shouldn't we try to figure out a rationalization that's consistent with what we see on-screen and that makes the episode make sense? Do we have some other project to get done first?

I'm curious if you're this upset by the attempts to retcon the Next Generation episode ``Unification'' into something that makes a lick of sense.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

"Hey, what if, instead of having to make new sets, we just reuse the Enterprise sets?!? We can say that the aliens built a duplicate of the Enterprise!"

"Sold!"

 

[BillJ]

"Hey, what if, instead of having to make new sets, we just reuse the Enterprise sets?!? We can say that the aliens built a duplicate of the Enterprise!"

"Sold!"

From a producer's point of view, it probably made sense on a show that was strapped for cash.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

With the added benefit of the duplicate ship being all but empty. Sure, there were extras with the Gideon crowds, but I'd bet they weren't needed but for one or two days. Certainly, a minority of the shooting schedule. Maybe Harvey or some other knowledgeable person can tell us. And, Gandalf, their costumes were super-basic.

 

[BillJ]

I'm curious if you're this upset by the attempts to retcon the Next Generation episode ``Unification'' into something that makes a lick of sense.

I'm pretty sure that is flat impossible.

 

[Timo]

little bits of the "bad" episodes

See, that's the part I never get. The one where the third season is of a lower quality than the first two. Isn't that like saying that the Police Academy sequels got worse after the fourth one?

Star Trek isn't art. It doesn't exactly qualify as entertainment by any classic or modern standards, either. It's television, from the golden age of camp.

Meaning it's a phenomenon. If it weren't, it wouldn't survive today. Even that which is good is phenomenally bad, phenomenally derivative, and often both. But we do the song and dance, we don the ears, we wet our pants at Nimoy raising the Eyebrow, we rewatch the sixth season of the third spinoff when it comes out in HD to get the complete set, and we fill in the holes left by the writers, three across, "What were the Gideonites doing?".

Enjoying Star Trek by watching it just doesn't cut it for me - I have more interesting greenery to keep an eye on. But immersing into Star Trek is fun. And something like "Mark of Gideon" or "Spock's Brain" is double the fun compared with tired, pre-chewed bits like "Balance of Terror" where all that remains is the drama, writing and acting. Which just isn't much.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Marsden]

I get to season 3 and have to watch (well choose to) watch absolute garbage like Plato's Stepchildren---where instead of a gut wrenching thing like Gary's power induced insanity or the awesome power of an advanced race--we see a foppish prick, like Parmen, who got his powers--enough to trap the ship and landing party by drinking the local water.
and Kirk's solution to this dilemma is to got a hypo of the magic stuff and use the only likeable character in the episode as a puppet holding a knife.
Besides the fact that the writer thought the audience would enjoy seeing Kirk and Spock raped.
Because that's what in effect in 1968, substituted for rape.
The utter and complete humiliation of the show's hero for the amusement of Parmen and who else-the writer, the audience?
It's garbage writing in a garbage episode. It's like a pro sports team eliminated from the playoff race playing out the string and getting greedy about their personal stats.
Nimoy insists on including his wretched "Maiden Wine" song that he wrote into the epidsode.
Does Parmen control the physical or the mental?
How do you force someone to speak lyrics that they don't want to say, is he forcing his mouth to say words that he doesn't know or is he controlling his mind? Who cares?
(Yes Charlie did that but clearly his powers were far more immense--transmutation, destroying a ship at great distance, causing people to disappear, telekinesis, teleportation, etc.)
It's trash, with the subtley of a sledgehammer and a hero who simply has to better/stronger than his foe.

"I have your powers--at twice the strength!"

sickening. Nearly every episode has some saving graces---a line, a concept, a performance, but don't say that some episodes aren't just plain terrible.

Well, I actually used to feel almost exactly the same about this one, too. It was another of those episodes I liked to forget about, but after rewatching it, I think the acting in it is very strong and the actors really put a lot of effort into it. I absolutely love Alexander's character and his interaction with Kirk. Michael Dunn was great, I love his performance. I love this part especially:

ALEXANDER: Anything you want, Just ask me. Anything.
KIRK: Thank you, Alexander.
ALEXANDER: Think nothing of it. You saved my life. I think I should tell you that
KIRK: Tell me what?
ALEXANDER: Well, just that I never knew any people like you existed.
KIRK: Where is everyone?
ALEXANDER: They're all in chambers, meditating.
KIRK: Alexander, are there other Platonians like you?
ALEXANDER: What do you mean, like me?
KIRK: Who don't have the psychokinetic ability.
ALEXANDER: I thought you were talking about my size, because they make fun of me for my size. But, to answer your question, I'm the only one without it. I was brought here as the court buffoon. That's why I'm everybody's slave and I have to be ten places at once, and I never do anything right.
SPOCK: How does one obtain the power?
ALEXANDER: As far as I know it just comes to you sometime after you're born. They say I'm a throwback, and I am, and so are you. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
KIRK: Don't worry about it. We're happy without it.
ALEXANDER: You know, I believe you are. Listen, where you come from, are there a lot of people without the power and my size?
KIRK: Alexander, where I come from, size, shape, or color makes no difference, and nobody has the power.

I bolded that last part, because it's nice to think the future will have that. We don't have it now 50 years later but I'm still hoping for the future.


And about Parmen, he is very cruel and sadistic, any conscience or reservations about doing something other than his whim is gone from him because of the long years of having absolute power. While he doesn't have the strength Mitchell did, this is what Gary was turning into. So how do you portray this? Have a character spout it out? Or do you show it by having Parmen abuse Kirk and Spock? Of course it's unpleasant to see! That's the point, isn't it? If it was just ok or painless, it really wouldn't show how cruel he is. And how is flying through a barrier and absorbing energy that gives you powers more complicated or thought out than absorbing a local element that gives you powers?

And then once the use their reason to determine the source of the power, and are able to administer that to themselves, Kirk takes the power and kills them all and sets himself up as the new god, right? Oh, wait no he actually doesn't harm any of them and just negotiates from a position of strength, which is classic James T. Kirk. He has always been exactly that, he talks with his enemies and makes them, if not friends, at least no longer enemies anymore, if possible. Some enemies do not want to stop being so, then and only then does he resort to anything more permanent. This stupid mischaracterization that Kirk shoots first and doesn't negotiate with anyone is just blatantly wrong and divorced from what was shown.

So having the power, he spares them and takes Alexander and leaves. Like he spared the Gorn, wanted to take the first Romulan Commander and his survivors to safety, offered the second Romulan Commander guest quarters, opened communications with the Horta, he and Kang defeated the * together, offered the Kelvins the planet they crashed on to live, and I could go on, there are many more.

Sorry if I seem like I'm picking on you Grant, that is not my intention at all. That last part especially was not directed at any one person but at the people that perpetuate that stereotype that all Kirk did was zoom around killing and screwing. It's stupid and the show would have never been remembered if it were true.

 

[telerites]

There are several third season episodes that I enjoy; however, overall, I think it is the weakest. Gideon is not one I enjoyed.

 

[GNDN18]

Well, I actually used to feel almost exactly the same about this one, too. It was another of those episodes I liked to forget about, but after rewatching it, I think the acting in it is very strong and the actors really put a lot of effort into it. I absolutely love Alexander's character and his interaction with Kirk. Michael Dunn was great, I love his performance. I love this part especially:

ALEXANDER: Anything you want, Just ask me. Anything.
KIRK: Thank you, Alexander.
ALEXANDER: Think nothing of it. You saved my life. I think I should tell you that
KIRK: Tell me what?
ALEXANDER: Well, just that I never knew any people like you existed.
KIRK: Where is everyone?
ALEXANDER: They're all in chambers, meditating.
KIRK: Alexander, are there other Platonians like you?
ALEXANDER: What do you mean, like me?
KIRK: Who don't have the psychokinetic ability.
ALEXANDER: I thought you were talking about my size, because they make fun of me for my size. But, to answer your question, I'm the only one without it. I was brought here as the court buffoon. That's why I'm everybody's slave and I have to be ten places at once, and I never do anything right.
SPOCK: How does one obtain the power?
ALEXANDER: As far as I know it just comes to you sometime after you're born. They say I'm a throwback, and I am, and so are you. I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
KIRK: Don't worry about it. We're happy without it.
ALEXANDER: You know, I believe you are. Listen, where you come from, are there a lot of people without the power and my size?
KIRK: Alexander, where I come from, size, shape, or color makes no difference, and nobody has the power.

I bolded that last part, because it's nice to think the future will have that. We don't have it now 50 years later but I'm still hoping for the future.


And about Parmen, he is very cruel and sadistic, any conscience or reservations about doing something other than his whim is gone from him because of the long years of having absolute power. While he doesn't have the strength Mitchell did, this is what Gary was turning into. So how do you portray this? Have a character spout it out? Or do you show it by having Parmen abuse Kirk and Spock? Of course it's unpleasant to see! That's the point, isn't it? If it was just ok or painless, it really wouldn't show how cruel he is. And how is flying through a barrier and absorbing energy that gives you powers more complicated or thought out than absorbing a local element that gives you powers?

And then once the use their reason to determine the source of the power, and are able to administer that to themselves, Kirk takes the power and kills them all and sets himself up as the new god, right? Oh, wait no he actually doesn't harm any of them and just negotiates from a position of strength, which is classic James T. Kirk. He has always been exactly that, he talks with his enemies and makes them, if not friends, at least no longer enemies anymore, if possible. Some enemies do not want to stop being so, then and only then does he resort to anything more permanent. This stupid mischaracterization that Kirk shoots first and doesn't negotiate with anyone is just blatantly wrong and divorced from what was shown.

So having the power, he spares them and takes Alexander and leaves. Like he spared the Gorn, wanted to take the first Romulan Commander and his survivors to safety, offered the second Romulan Commander guest quarters, opened communications with the Horta, he and Kang defeated the * together, offered the Kelvins the planet they crashed on to live, and I could go on, there are many more.

Sorry if I seem like I'm picking on you Grant, that is not my intention at all. That last part especially was not directed at any one person but at the people that perpetuate that stereotype that all Kirk did was zoom around killing and screwing. It's stupid and the show would have never been remembered if it were true.

Thank you, Marsden. You helped me to appreciate a disappointing episode. More than that, though, you helped me see why Kirk is such a durable character: he manages to bring sides together despite his flaws. Often, he is able to achieve concord as result of learning from his mistakes. Well done.

 

[Mytran]

Second that - Plato's is not one of my favourite episodes but there are nonetheless nuggets embedded in there like this. The same can be said for most episodes from TOS and yet I doubt that anyone would try and dispute that the 3rd season has more than its share of poorly written, cheaply produced episodes, MOG included. But if they generate discussion (and theories of what "really" was going on) then that can't be a bad thing, can it? Dismissing an episode outright just because it is "bad" seems to be missing an opportunity, IMO. As someone else said upthread, we only have the 79...

 

[telerites]

I loved the Plato's episode side. A lot due to Michael Dunn. He was just a wonderful actor. But this episode had the supposed first interracial kiss in a TV show and although a bit too high on the morality side, I think it stands up rather nicely.

 

[Marsden]

Thank you, Marsden. You helped me to appreciate a disappointing episode. More than that, though, you helped me see why Kirk is such a durable character: he manages to bring sides together despite his flaws. Often, he is able to achieve concord as result of learning from his mistakes. Well done.

Your Welcome.


And it's still a disappointing episode for me. I just don't think it's without it's good points. This is the main reason I think Star Trek is best as a tv show and not movies. A disappointing episode can be made tolerable with some good bits in it. A disappointing movie is just disappointing.

And I like the flexibility that the risk of few off episodes is not so great as to end something as opposed to a few off movies. That allows the writers to try some different things without risking loosing it all. But too many duds and you get a bad show, so it's not a free ride.

So, some of these disappointing episodes, and they are not all in the third season, at least had a chance to do something different, but didn't quite work. And we know it wasn't really disappointing episodes that cancelled because of bad episodes. Ratings were down and budgets were cut but that was happening whether the episodes were top notch or not.


I'm actually having a hard time thinking of a better scenario for Alexander and Kirk to have that conversation in a better episode, though. Maybe we could have done without some of the sadism, but as I was saying, a very common complaint is "show don't tell" so they showed it. And I'm not sure who could have "told" it as the other Platonians were just as bad and jealous of him as well. And poor Alexander really never knew anything else to make those conclusions.

 

[flandry84]

If the episode was being made today the replica Enterprise would be a virtual reality model.The action would be taking place in Jim's head(accounting for the realistic sights/smells and sounds) while Kirk was in reality on a table having his blood synthesised by the Gideonites.
A population as drastically deprived of privacy and personal space would have developed pretty good VR tech IMO..

All in all a pretty creepy and bleak episode,I have often wondered did the virus get out of control?Did the Gideonites turn their world into a graveyard?

 

[ZapBrannigan]

All in all a pretty creepy and bleak episode,I have often wondered did the virus get out of control?Did the Gideonites turn their world into a graveyard?

Yeah, it's completely nuts that they treat it like a happy ending.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ For the Gideonites, it's the closest they'll get to one. When faced by constant death-by-overpopulation, they would regard that ending as a heroic sacrifice - to die for a specific PURPOSE, to save the rest of their race. That's as "happy" an ending as they could ever hope for, I think.

As for the replica of the ship? I'm sure it's just a holodeck.

 

[Zaku]

All in all a pretty creepy and bleak episode,I have often wondered did the virus get out of control?Did the Gideonites turn their world into a graveyard?

From Memory-Beta, the non-canon Wiki

By reference stardate 2/2306.01, the world had a population of over 12 billion individuals, after 14 years of disease killed over 6 billion. (FASA RPG module: The Federation)

The depopulation would continue until 96% of the inhabitants had died. (ST reference: The Worlds of the Federation)