The Mark of Gideon?

[LMFAOschwarz]

Or then they aren't spectating, but rather making an appearance intended to unnerve Kirk, as a weird element in the plan. Or standing by to rush in and provide medical assistance. Or whatever. But they do seem to be part of the "starship" plan, rather than people shoved to an available space. (Or perhaps the starship structure doubles as a movie theater, with the other side of the wall being used as a silver screen?)

Timo Saloniemi

It is weird how when Kirk opened the portal, the people outside are standing on essentially the same plane as he and Odona. I have no idea what that would imply, I'm just adding that interesting bit to the discussion.

Also, it's a great excuse to mention that portal itself.



It's really neat how the inner panel slides open from the bottom, and a second outer panel, at a right angle to the first, opens up from the center. It looks really cool, and adds a nice 'thickness' to the outer hull of the ship (in spite of this being a mock recreation of it).

All in all, it's a pretty creepy scene!

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

But they do seem to be part of the "starship" plan, rather than people shoved to an available space. (Or perhaps the starship structure doubles as a movie theater, with the other side of the wall being used as a silver screen?)

Timo Saloniemi

Upon further consideration, there is some evidence of something like this going on. From Hodin's office, the people are seen t be heedlessly milling by, paying no attention to what is clearly a window.

 

[Mytran]

The set designers of TOS went to a lot of extra effort to convey the realism of being on a working starship (it is the only Trek series to date that bothered to put two sets of double doors on the turbolifts).
In addition, the presence of the blast shield outside the viewport neatly explains why we never saw that particular window on the outside of the ship - it was covered up!

 

[Timo]

...Which prompts the question of how many windows there actually are on the ship. A lot more than we think, mostly shuttered to invisibility?

What are those windows for, anyway? Few rooms seem to be provided with those - and when we actually see a porthole from the inside this rare once, it's in a nondescript utility room, providing a view of nothing much. The heavy duty control unit (with a safety cover!) sort of echoes the hole from ST:FC, with its apparent dedicated control pedestal - but that one was an actual hole into space, supposedly for the purposes of moving stuff in or out (even if the pedestal is in the way).

From Hodin's office, the people are seen to be heedlessly milling by, paying no attention to what is clearly a window.

Supposedly, the important government building would have lots of people conducting important business. But no interest whatsoever in the obvious alien in their midst? It's not as if they are actually busy with whatever they are doing! It almost appears as if they have been told to act their part in this great charade, perhaps in hopes of making Kirk more sympathetic to the problems of the planet...

On the other hand, I could well see there existing extremely strong taboos against eye contact on Gideon if the crowding really is that severe.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

Regarding the windows on board ship, I actually doubt that most of the ones we saw shining from the hull were actual viewports as such. More likely they are used for nagivational confirmation, planetary or interstellar sensor equipment installations.

My reasons for this line of thinking are:

• Complete lack of windows in common areas of the ship as seen throughout the series.
• Where viewports are seen, no-one seems interested in the "wondrous" sights beyond (COK)
• Or else it is for a very specific purpose, to look outside the ship as opposed to mere casual stargazing MOG)

In TOS, the intention was that our heroes were just a group of guys who happened to work in outer space. As such, a view of the stars would be no more interesting to them than a view of the surf for those that work on an Aircraft Carrier today. Yes, the view is nice at certain times (for which viewports are available) but mostly a person would just wish to get on with his/her job and enjoy the social life on board. To a certain degree this design philosophy is carried on into TMP, although by the 24th century the "more evolved " human has had a change of heart, it seems.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

It almost appears as if they have been told to act their part in this great charade, perhaps in hopes of making Kirk more sympathetic to the problems of the planet...

Whether this is the case or not, it's potential certainly wasn't lost on the director of the episode. It's very theatrical, and effective, as Kirk looks out the window...



...just as Hodin is saying, "...and the population grew until now Gideon is encased in a living mass." A great combination of words and image, each maximizing the impact of the other. Evidence that a low budget certainly doesn't have to preclude good story-telling!

That whole scene is well scripted, too. All the information conveyed about the plight of Gideon in a relatively short time, in such a way as to underscore Hodin's character as well as fully inform the viewer. In fact, I honestly don't think this scene could have been written any better! Some of it's content was actually relatively risky for tv of the time, too.

On the other hand, I could well see there existing extremely strong taboos against eye contact on Gideon if the crowding really is that severe.

That's a really interesting notion!

 

[johnnybear]

Just because the planet is over crowded, massively over crowded doesn't mean that for the elite there isn't spare space! The government probably has it's own free beach in which to let it's family and friends frollick and swim about just like it would here on earth if the same thing happened! 'We're all in it together' as they say but only when the cameras aren't looking!
JB

 

[plynch]

"no ... beach to walk on" - James T. Gideonite, commoner

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's really neat how the inner panel slides open from the bottom, and a second outer panel, at a right angle to the first, opens up from the center. It looks really cool, and adds a nice 'thickness' to the outer hull of the ship (in spite of this being a mock recreation of it).

There was much thought into the production of TOS; it did not all happen at the pilot stage (unfortunately), but much care was put into selling the idea that the sets were part of a functional vehicle.

it is the only Trek series to date that bothered to put two sets of double doors on the turbolifts).

More attention to detail; its all subtle, but combined, it made the 1701 seem solid, as opposed to other sci-fi productions that were usually some effort into an external shell, with tons of aging, overused surplus electronic components trying to stand in for futuristic technology.

 

[Mytran]

Timo just posted this over in another thread, regarding Spock's apparent breaking of the rules in this episode:

One wonders if Spock didn't just screw up something big there. We are told that the Federation wants contact with Gideon for completely unknown reasons - that is, unknown to the audience and the Starfleet heroes. The Gideonites have been in negotiations with the UFP - and somehow they have gained access to Kirk's medical history and the exact blueprints of the Enterprise... Moreover, only one man of Kirk's 430 crew had the right sort of disease, and Kirk probably was the only starship captain with that disease! It almost looks as if Starfleet agreed with Gideon to send the right man for the job, and then to help the Gideonites make use of that man in the one and only way acceptable for their weird local religion.

It had honestly never occurred to me that the Federation council might have been in on the scheme but it does fill in a lot of the blanks! It also matches up nicely with the somewhat blinkered view presented by the Federation ambassadors we met in TOS - they are there to get the job done, no matter the cost!

 

[Timo]

The government would have to be in a rather desperate and bleak corner to sell Kirk to the Gideonites. But we do hear that galactic famine of some sort, or at least the threat thereof, is behind Carol Marcus' pitch for the risky Genesis technology. Perhaps the UFP is dying to find out how so many Gideonites manage to survive on so little?

Also, given Genesis still being a sale two decades later, perhaps the deal didn't pay off after all.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Mytran]

An end to universal famine for the price of one Starship captain? I'd call that a bargain, especially as the Federation council is often presented as being somewhat disconnected from the troops on the ground and concentrating only on the bigger picture (wasn't that a plot element of Insurrection?)

IMO, the reason why it didn't pay off is there was no big secret on how the population was fed - the entire population of the planet was crushed into some city domes, leaving the rest of the planet available for agriculture

 

[T'Girl]

Maybe something like the movie Soylent Green, the people were packed into limited areas, and the farmland was "like fortresses."

 

[Vandervecken]

I was thinking more like someone among the Feds was interested in finding out if the physiology that allows the Gideonites to be nearly (or truly) biologically immortal could be reproduced artificially somehow (now where have we seen that before or rather later). In exchange for Kirk, the Feds get an endless supply of lab subjects...

 

[Grant]

Terrible premise. Not buying for a minute that they could have the exact details of the ship and even if they did---Kirk knows HIS ship, the sounds the feel etc.

Even if they had every spec of the ship he would know by sitting in his chair, looking at the panel next to him that it was a copy.
When I sit in my chair I know if it feels funny, I feel it if a tiny little object is under me, how it rocks and how it swivels.
There is no way Kirk left his bridge and twenty minutes later arrived on a copy and didn't know the difference.

And all these silly rationalizations 45+ years later--

Starfleet was in on it!!

Please, is there nothing we can't just say was a bad desperate script a the end of the last season of a cancelled show?

Season 3 is loaded with this filler junk and there's no need for us to sit here and come up with all these solutions that the writers and directors and producers didn't give a damn about when they were making the episode.

Does it make folks feel good to pretend these episodes aren't bad and illogical by coming up with their own solutions?

I wonder if these are the same people who spend endless time picking the new movies apart for every little detail and then go home and excuse these boring nonsense 3rd season bombs.

And if Gideon has this super spy who aboard the Ent and took scans and readings of every inch of the ship---tell that freaking story because it sounds 100 times more interesting than what we got.

They can copy the ship down to the last detail but when he opens up a viewport there are 20 people just standing there staring at what was one second ago an exterior of a fake starship duplicate.
Fun when I was 7--like Lost in Space may have been, awful when you think about after.

I watch the shows after 49 years to be entertained by the acting writing and concepts--not to sit there and pretend I'm a writer and thinking of excuses for all the mistakes.

 

[BillJ]

Terrible premise. Not buying for a minute that they could have the exact details of the ship and even if they did---Kirk knows HIS ship, the sounds the feel etc.

Even if they had every spec of the ship he would know by sitting in his chair, looking at the panel next to him that it was a copy.
When I sit in my chair I know if it feels funny, I feel it if a tiny little object is under me, how it rocks and how it swivels.
There is no way Kirk left his bridge and twenty minutes later arrived on a copy and didn't know the difference.

And all these silly rationalizations 45+ years later--

Starfleet was in on it!!

Please, is there nothing we can't just say was a bad desperate script a the end of the last season of a cancelled show?

Season 3 is loaded with this filler junk and there's no need for us to sit here and come up with all these solutions that the writers and directors and producers didn't give a damn about when they were making the episode.

Does it make folks feel good to pretend these episodes aren't bad and illogical by coming up with their own solutions?

I wonder if these are the same people who spend endless time picking the new movies apart for every little detail and then go home and excuse these boring nonsense 3rd season bombs.

And if Gideon has this super spy who aboard the Ent and took scans and readings of every inch of the ship---tell that freaking story because it sounds 100 times more interesting than what we got.

They can copy the ship down to the last detail but when he opens up a viewport there are 20 people just standing there staring at what was one second ago an exterior of a fake starship duplicate.
Fun when I was 7--like Lost in Space may have been, awful when you think about after.

I watch the shows after 49 years to be entertained by the acting writing and concepts--not to sit there and pretend I'm a writer and thinking of excuses for all the mistakes.

Well, Bah Humbug to you too!

 

[Marsden]

While I do hate the crap people give the 3rd season, this is one of the episodes I just kind of forget about. When I watch Star Trek, I don't watch this one. Although there were some good character moments for Spock and some of the others, it's really not worth the whole thing.


Also, I think it's pretty clear the Gideonites messed with Jim's mind, he was drugged and didn't know when he hurt his arm, he was walking around three sheets to the wind but he couldn't act that way or it would have blown the "suspense" to soon. Even the beam in was a blatant lie on the part of the production as he didn't beam into that replica transporter room, they jumped him and drugged him when he came down.

 

[Grant]

Well, Bah Humbug to you too!

Well my habit is to watch the show in production order and I start out every few months watching The Cage and WNMHGB and I am awed as I was 45 years ago by my feelings for Kirk who watches with despair as Mitchell and Dehner go thru the horrific process from likeable humans to flawed "gods" and the subtle performances by all 3 and when I see Arena and the crew is stunned by the Metrons seizing their ship and holding it and how Kirk has to overcome the Gorn and win them over by showing his humanity and decency.
I see how Pike/Number one/Vina have to literally be willing to kill themselves to prevent slavery and the Talosians reaction.
How Kirk is helpless when the Thasians come for Charlie and he knows it's dangerous, perhaps reckless but he asks them to let them try again with Charlie and they say no, take Charlie and leave, the sacrifice he has to make with Edith and then.......

I get to season 3 and have to watch (well choose to) watch absolute garbage like Plato's Stepchildren---where instead of a gut wrenching thing like Gary's power induced insanity or the awesome power of an advanced race--we see a foppish prick, like Parmen, who got his powers--enough to trap the ship and landing party by drinking the local water.
and Kirk's solution to this dilemma is to got a hypo of the magic stuff and use the only likeable character in the episode as a puppet holding a knife.
Besides the fact that the writer thought the audience would enjoy seeing Kirk and Spock raped.
Because that's what in effect in 1968, substituted for rape.
The utter and complete humiliation of the show's hero for the amusement of Parmen and who else-the writer, the audience?
It's garbage writing in a garbage episode. It's like a pro sports team eliminated from the playoff race playing out the string and getting greedy about their personal stats.
Nimoy insists on including his wretched "Maiden Wine" song that he wrote into the epidsode.
Does Parmen control the physical or the mental?
How do you force someone to speak lyrics that they don't want to say, is he forcing his mouth to say words that he doesn't know or is he controlling his mind? Who cares?
(Yes Charlie did that but clearly his powers were far more immense--transmutation, destroying a ship at great distance, causing people to disappear, telekinesis, teleportation, etc.)
It's trash, with the subtley of a sledgehammer and a hero who simply has to better/stronger than his foe.

"I have your powers--at twice the strength!"

sickening. Nearly every episode has some saving graces---a line, a concept, a performance, but don't say that some episodes aren't just plain terrible.

Kirk learned his limits/lessons in Charlie X, in Arena, in City, in WNMHGB, in Errand of Mercy---he had to reflect on his attitudes.
In tripe like Plato's he comes up against pure perverted evil and gets an injection and crows NOW IM STRONGER THAN YOU!!
That would have been a subpar ending to a 1968 comic book--let alone a show that was amazingly clever and thoughtful two years earlier.

HUMBUG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[T'Girl]

Starfleet was in on it!!

Then why didn't Starfleet (!!!) just send Gideon a blood sample, or some live culture of the meningitis?

Or Starfleet could of gone the route of Last Battlefield and sprayed the entire planet from orbit with hundreds of tonnes of weaponized meningitis infected aerosol fluid.

 

[Grant]

Starfleet was in on it!!

Then why didn't Starfleet (!!!) just send Gideon a blood sample, or some live culture of the meningitis?

Or Starfleet could of gone the route of Last Battlefield and sprayed the entire planet from orbit with hundreds of tonnes of weaponized meningitis infected aerosol fluid.

Because there was some reason this insane and highly illogical plan made sense. But the audience should never know it back then--just come up with it years later and invent their own story