The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on DVD

[Good Will Riker]

So, when I first heard that Jon Favreau wanted to have "The Mandarin" as the primary villain for the next Iron Man film, I did some research on-line and this is what I found:

"The Mandarin" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandarin_(comics)

Dude, how is Favreau going to be able to transform this disgusting, racially-insensitive yellow peril fu manchu caricature into a primary adversary to Tony Stark that the movie audience will be able to take seriously?

In all honesty, if the portrayal of this villain is a lot closer to the more "intelliegent and respectable" portrayal of Shiwan Khan by actor John Lone in 1994's The Shadow, that I can buy...but, if the depiction of said character is anything remotely resembling Dr. Daka from the Batman serials or Ming the Merciless from Flash Gordon, you know there is going to be protests among many Asian American groups as well as the people who live all across Asia!

Also, I hope they can cast a more dramatic Asian/Asian American actor in the role of the Mandarin, rather than go the chopsocky "Jet Li route" as they did with The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.

The jury is still out on whether or not I want to purchase Iron Man on DVD due to the yellow peril origins of that Mandarin character. Why invest more money into a franchise that may potentially misrepresent "my people" in the wrong "usually stereotypical Hollywood" way?

P.S.: And, please Jon Favreau, I admired your work in Swingers, but please have the good sense of leaving this sack of shit out of your next Iron Man film! -

"Fin Fang Foom" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fin_Fang_Foom

 

[Morpheus 02]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Umm...does your Power Rangers avatar help Asian-American stereotypes?

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

^^^^

This will be the first time in Hollywood history that a tentpole summer blockbuster film featuring an Asian/Asian American actor cast as the primary villain have the same status as any of the traditionally caucasian actors cast as the Batman villains and James Bond villains in these kinds of high-profile studio cinematic properties, respectively.

They better get it right.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

You are making yourself look foolish. The seeds for the Mandarin were already set up in the first film. Completely avoiding what you are concerned about. They have changed the character totally...
Which will likely be your next complaint.

 

[Trent Roman]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Favreau has mentioned in some interviews about the second film that he was relunctant about using Mandarin because he is aware of the difficulties involved in tackling such a complete stereotype of a character. So while I have no idea what the finished product will be, rest assured that the director shares your concerns to a certain degree. The Mandarin will have to be updated for 21st century standards, not just because he is a walking ethnic slur, but also because his origins (alien rings that give him magical powers) don't fit the universe Favreau created. My own feeling is that the Mandarin will be remodeled to resemble Tony Stark himself, i.e. a business tycoon with great technological acumen (from which he creates his rings); more of a James Bond-ish villain.

Fictitiously yours, Trent Roman

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

You are making yourself look foolish. The seeds for the Mandarin were already set up in the first film. Completely avoiding what you are concerned about. They have changed the character totally...
Which will likely be your next complaint.

As this sequel to the first Iron Man film will come out at an opportune time when China is emerging as a superpower while the might of the American economy is going down, it will be interesting how 2 industrial giants of the East (The Mandarin) and the West (Tony Stark) will battle it out for supremacy and order.

If they re-cast the Mandarin with a caucasian actor, the character will lose some of his edge and flavor like what happened with Ming the Merciless in the recently canceled "Flash Gordon" Sci-Fi TV series. But, please give a lot of serious thought into portraying the character of the Mandarin with a level of dignity and respect.

 

[Pensive]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

The character has its roots in Communism. Please try to understand his historical context. Also, Favreau has talked a lot recently about how he wants to work Mandarin into the next film(s).

if Batman Begins can take the ridiculous caricature of Ra's al Ghul and transform him into a way less ridiculous and respectable tech-villain, then Iron Man2 can certainly do that.

 

[Aragorn]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I just passed on Good Will Riker's concerns to Jon Favreau, and he's agreed to make The Mandarin a white straight Mormon who operates in the world of black market oranges.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Maybe Robert Downey Jr should play the part in makeup...

Or maybe not!

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I just passed on Good Will Riker's concerns to Jon Favreau, and he's agreed to make The Mandarin a white straight Mormon who operates in the world of black market oranges.

If you cross Mitt Romney with Marlon Brando, I say you have a winner there!

 

[Saul]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I think the world has moved on from that.

It's more likely the mandarin will be from the Middle East.

 

[Hermiod]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I'm starting to think GWR hasn't actually seen the film.

Spoiler: The Mandarin

The secondary villains in the movie are a Middle Eastern terrorist faction called The Five Rings - a reference to the Mandarin. Their leader, Raza, wears a ring and praises Genghis Khan a lot. Jon Favreau has apparently suggested that Raza is a member of a larger organisation, possibly headed by the actual Mandarin.

Of course, it would have been much better if the Mandarin had been portrayed as a green-skinned, pointed eared alien like in the 90's cartoon. (As Ming the Merciless and Dr. No were as well.)

 

[Good Will Riker]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I'm starting to think GWR hasn't actually seen the film.

Spoiler: The Mandarin

The secondary villains in the movie are a Middle Eastern terrorist faction called The Five Rings - a reference to the Mandarin. Their leader, Raza, wears a ring and praises Genghis Khan a lot. Jon Favreau has apparently suggested that Raza is a member of a larger organisation, possibly headed by the actual Mandarin.

Of course, it would have been much better if the Mandarin had been portrayed as a green-skinned, pointed eared alien like in the 90's cartoon. (As Ming the Merciless and Dr. No were as well.)

I saw the film when it came out in May 2008. I liked it. I even planned to purchase it on DVD.

Then...I asked myself "Why isn't there one single Asian American character in this entire film? Not one single Asian face in this entire summer blockbuster film?" Also, I heard rumors about this Mandarin character that Jon Favreau wanted to include in the sequel, and started doing some research on-line.

After coming across what I found out about the Mandarin in my research, I concluded tonight "Nope, I am not going to be purchasing this DVD. No way I am going to be spending about $25.00 for an ultimate edition DVD that I may endup selling-off if Iron Man 2's Mandarin turnsout to be a disappointment."

 

[Hermiod]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

^So, your argument is that you won't watch any American production without an Asian-American in it, correct ?

According to the CIA World Factbook, Asian-Americans made up 4.43% of the population of the United States. If every film had to have at least one, that would make for a disproportionately high number of Asian-American characters in US film and television, well over 4%.

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Racism arguments aside, I'm pretty sure we've already seen the "Mandarin" in the show already. And it wasn't the namely guy who gloomed and stared a lot.

There's got to be a reason why we never saw Yinsen actually shoot anyone as he went screaming down the corridor. Or why we just saw him stop when he came to the large group of Ten Rings. Or why there was a cut scene and then you just see him laying on top of bags "looking" wounded. Or that he would have survived the assault of that entire group of heavily armed Ten Rings terrorists. Or why they would have just had a highly trained doctor just sitting around in a cell. Or that he was there to help build the armor and learn how to make the mini-Arc reactor. (And yes, I'm aware of the character and how he's protrayed in the comics.)

Since the original poster didn't even bother to realize that they're obviously reworking the entire concept as made blatantly obvious by the Ten Rings, that whole bit of this discussion is irrelevant to me. Just an excuse to bitch for no real reason at all.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Dude, how is Favreau going to be able to transform this disgusting, racially-insensitive yellow peril fu manchu caricature into a primary adversary to Tony Stark that the movie audience will be able to take seriously?

I don't know, why don't you wait and see what he comes up with before jumping to conclusions? What a revolutionary concept! Or, take Favreau's own word on the subject:

CHUD.com: And he's a tough character because in his original appearances he's a racist caricature.

Favreau: There are certain fears and certain strengths the character evokes that are applicable, but of course you have to completely remove any of that short sighted cultural ignorance that leads to any sort of bigotry in the storytelling. That isn't to say those fears and shortcomings of Iron Man as relating to that character aren't relevant.

Think about what made the Mandarin someone everybody gravitated to if you look at the message boards, overwhelmingly that's someone everyone wants to see. He was intelligent, he was powerful, he was mysterious. He was always one step ahead. Despite his suit and technology, Iron Man was always the underdog. Mandarin always had this Machiavellian web he would fall into. He was based in China which was then mysterious because it was Red China. Today China is mysterious in other ways because it's Global China. China is the economic powerhouse that is quickly catching up and will eventually surpass us.

Sounds remarkably like what you said here:

"As this sequel to the first Iron Man film will come out at an opportune time when China is emerging as a superpower while the might of the American economy is going down, it will be interesting how 2 industrial giants of the East (The Mandarin) and the West (Tony Stark) will battle it out for supremacy and order."

So, how about you cut the guy some slack and try and not get offended before you even know anything?

You know there is going to be protests among many Asian American groups as well as the people who live all across Asia!

Translation: I'M GOING TO GET REALLY MAD AND POST ABOUT IT ON TREKBBS!!!

The rest of the world will just go on with their lives like normal.

Also, I hope they can cast a more dramatic Asian/Asian American actor in the role of the Mandarin, rather than go the chopsocky "Jet Li route" as they did with The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor.

So, basically, no matter what anyone does, if it involves or doesn't involve an Asian character you're going to be pissed about it or dismiss it for not fitting into your personal view (which changes by the minute). No Catch-22s or unreasonable expectations there.

The Mummy III featured two prominent Asian actors as villain and heroine, a third as a love interest and heroine (Oh, but wait, she fell in love with whitey, so she's a sellout - ignoring how offensive that attitude is on your part), and a fourth as a heroic general who loved Michelle Yeoh's character and fathered her child. But since they did martial arts, it doesn't count. How convenient.

The jury is still out on whether or not I want to purchase Iron Man on DVD due to the yellow peril origins of that Mandarin character. Why invest more money into a franchise that may potentially misrepresent "my people" in the wrong "usually stereotypical Hollywood" way?

They're not "your people." You in no way, shape, or form represent Asians, Asian-Americans, humans, or normal people. You live among us and may pass as one of us on occasion, but you are not kindred.

I saw the film when it came out in May 2008. I liked it. I even planned to purchase it on DVD.

Then...I asked myself "Why isn't there one single Asian American character in this entire film? Not one single Asian face in this entire summer blockbuster film?" Also, I heard rumors about this Mandarin character that Jon Favreau wanted to include in the sequel, and started doing some research on-line.

Translation: I saw it and liked it, and then I realized I had to post an attention whoring topic on TrekBBS, so I became outraged by the lack of Asians in the film, because the 200 or so people in the film from Central ASIA aren't REAL Asians. Everyone knows Asia ends at the border of China and the western edge of Southeast Asia, at least, east of that is where the only Asians I care about live.

If there had been Asians of your liking in the film, you would have manufactured a reason to be offended by that as well. Perhaps they would have been doing something horribly stereotypical like riding on a bus, or being a scientist (can't show smart Asians!), or being someone the main character took out on a date (whitey's stealing our women!), or buying donuts, because I'm sure you can twist that into being racist somehow.

After coming across what I found out about the Mandarin in my research, I concluded tonight "Nope, I am not going to be purchasing this DVD. No way I am going to be spending about $25.00 for an ultimate edition DVD that I may endup selling-off if Iron Man 2's Mandarin turnsout to be a disappointment."

You didn't research shit about the new film, because the one statement Favreau has actually made makes it clear that he explicitly wants to avoid those kinds of stereotypes. You assumed based on previous versions that this would be equally offensive, and got outraged in advance, boycotting a DVD which doesn't even explicitly feature the character yet. Idiotic behavior.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I saw the film when it came out in May 2008. I liked it. I even planned to purchase it on DVD.

Then...I asked myself "Why isn't there one single Asian American character in this entire film? Not one single Asian face in this entire summer blockbuster film?" Also, I heard rumors about this Mandarin character that Jon Favreau wanted to include in the sequel, and started doing some research on-line.

After coming across what I found out about the Mandarin in my research, I concluded tonight "Nope, I am not going to be purchasing this DVD. No way I am going to be spending about $25.00 for an ultimate edition DVD that I may endup selling-off if Iron Man 2's Mandarin turnsout to be a disappointment."

This is what baffles me about many fandoms and people in them - if you liked the first movie enough to want to buy the DVD, then why not just buy it, enjoy, and then... not buy the second one if you don't like that one? The first one's still it's own movie...

 

[A Clockwork Lim]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

Then...I asked myself "Why isn't there one single Asian American character in this entire film?

Well Hell. If that's the argument, then I'm going to bitch, rant, and rave because not every movie in the history of mankind features a Native American, an Eskimo, or a Maori. RAWR! I AM FURIOUS AND WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER MOVIE UNLESS EVERYONE IS REPRESENTED!

 

[Cutter John]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I've been demanding that Hollywood put more hot asian women in their movies for years! But do they listen? Nooooo...

 

[Saul]

Re: The Mandarin- the primary reason why I won't be buying Iron Man on

I'm starting to think GWR hasn't actually seen the film.

Spoiler: The Mandarin

The secondary villains in the movie are a Middle Eastern terrorist faction called The Five Rings - a reference to the Mandarin. Their leader, Raza, wears a ring and praises Genghis Khan a lot. Jon Favreau has apparently suggested that Raza is a member of a larger organisation, possibly headed by the actual Mandarin.

Of course, it would have been much better if the Mandarin had been portrayed as a green-skinned, pointed eared alien like in the 90's cartoon. (As Ming the Merciless and Dr. No were as well.)

I saw the film when it came out in May 2008. I liked it. I even planned to purchase it on DVD.

Then...I asked myself "Why isn't there one single Asian American character in this entire film? Not one single Asian face in this entire summer blockbuster film?" Also, I heard rumors about this Mandarin character that Jon Favreau wanted to include in the sequel, and started doing some research on-line.

After coming across what I found out about the Mandarin in my research, I concluded tonight "Nope, I am not going to be purchasing this DVD. No way I am going to be spending about $25.00 for an ultimate edition DVD that I may endup selling-off if Iron Man 2's Mandarin turnsout to be a disappointment."

I've watched hundreds of Asian movies with no white characters. But I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it. Or any sterotypical view that the director must hate white people or any nationality he doesn't include.

Get over it.