The makeup for Original Series Klingons
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Free reign??? All anyone has to do is look at the TNG movies, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and would see these programs has Rick Berman's vision of Trek all over it. Producers from Berman may get some leeway on telling stories as long as it doesn't fall too far from the tree.
I didn't know the TOS scripts described Klingons as oriental; looking at the images of Kor I see that now. Like Dr. Zin, or Charlie Chan. It's great work, even on HD is looks fantastic. Those were awesome Klingons.
Obviously you didn't understand what I said. Berman gave Ira Behr free rein over Deep Space Nine because Berman's own attention was primarily on TNG, VGR, and the movies. I was speaking specifically about DS9, not about all the series equally. (Also, it's free rein, an equestrian metaphor which means relaxing one's grip on a horse's reins and letting the horse go where it will. "Give free reign" makes no sense, because reign means kingly rule, and kings generally either take reign for themselves or are presumed to possess it by divine right, so nobody can give it to them. Although I have to admit, I accidentally typed "free reign" at first and had to think about it for a second.)
And TNG. Berman was with TNG as Co-Executive Producer pretty much from day one. He also co-created all the TNG spinoffs.
But your opinions still don't match the material we got. No one was disrespecting TOS. I say this as a TOS die-hard that has been watching since 1975. Berman hated TOS so much that we constantly got references to it throughout all the spinoffs.
I was just making a silly, reference to one of Bashir's lines in the episode. O'Brien criticizes him for not knowing the old command colors and Bashir says, "I'm a doctor. Not a historian."
Another thing I liked about the Klingon make up was it was simple and not too complicated. It allowed the actors to show expressions and be the character more than applying lumps of make up. Again it was a nice job.
The episode ended with Sisko getting Kirk's autograph, I don't know how much more respectful it needed to be.
The thing to always keep in mind is that no matter how important Kirk and his ship and crew and adventures were in-universe, the characters on TNG, DS9, etc., didn't spend 20+ years watching and rewatching the adventures of just that one ship and crew. In their world, there'd be plenty of other people and events of significance from before, during, and after Kirk's time sharing space in their heads with Kirk and the original Enterprise.
Was Kirk a legendary figure by the 24th century? Sure, why not? Was he the Starfleet Messiah? That's pushing it.
The thing to always keep in mind is that no matter how important Kirk and his ship and crew and adventures were in-universe, the characters on TNG, DS9, etc., didn't spend 20+ years watching and rewatching the adventures of just that one ship and crew. In their world, there'd be plenty of other people and events of significance from before, during, and after Kirk's time sharing space in their heads with Kirk and the original Enterprise.
Was Kirk a legendary figure by the 24th century? Sure, why not? Was he the Starfleet Messiah? That's pushing it.
Right. Let's remember that there were other captains that Kirk himself looked up to as idols and role models, like Garth (pre-insanity) and Garrovick. Who's to say Federation historians don't consider them to be at least as important as Kirk?
We didn't see Sisko paying Kirk for his autograph. So, obviously, Berman thought Kirk was worthless.
IMO, Trials was a fun and respectful homage to TOS, and I really enjoyed and appreciated the effort that went into it including the inside jokes at the saloon.
Now there was a period of time where it felt like TNG was getting rammed down my throat as if it was the best and most popular of the Star Trek series. With the advent of NuTrek bringing TOS characters back, that seems to have ended, fortunately.
Now there was a period of time where it felt like TNG was getting rammed down my throat as if it was the best and most popular of the Star Trek series. With the advent of NuTrek bringing TOS characters back, that seems to have ended, fortunately.
I liked them best in STTMP, also STVI because after awhile i got sick of the uniform design.
My favorite is from Into Darkness though.
I thought The Klingons from TMP were very good and they all looked alike with their ridges! Strangely later they changed the ridges to a turtle with veins and they all looked somewhat different! Some had lumps, some had bulges and others veins! The best to me will always be the original series Klingons with their black tunics, gold vests and sparkly baggy pants and boots! 
JB
JB
A feature film will always allow for more elaborate makeup simply because you have the time and money and it's a one time exercise. I don't know why in the next three films they chose not to follow what they had done in TMP. By the time of TFF and TUC we had had a few years exposure to TNG where they had done the Klingon makeup differently which was a result of working within a television budget. TNG had established a new look which could be followed in the films.
Probably because they had different producers who hired a different prosthetic-makeup staff. Prosthetics is an art, and artists put their own personal stamp on their work. Although there are practical considerations as well -- often, the first version of a prosthetic makeup will prove too cumbersome or uncomfortable or complicated, so it'll be redesigned to work better.
As johnnybear said, the ridges Fred Phillips designed for TMP did all look alike, and that made it hard to tell the Klingons apart. That was fine for a brief teaser sequence, but when the time came to do The Search for Spock and have extensive interaction between distinct Klingon characters, the filmmakers and the makeup designers at the Burman Studio may well have felt it would work better to give each Klingon an individualized, recognizable look. And so the single spine-like ridge down the middle of the forehead gave way to bony forehead plates that could be more easily individualized. Then when Richard Snell took over for ST IV through VI, he went for a subtler, smaller version of the same thing, perhaps due to his own aesthetic preferences or perhaps because it was easier to work with.
No, the look Michael Westmore developed for TNG was basically following the lead of the Burman Studio's TSFS design, with the individualized, heavy bone plates -- though he incorporated one element of the TMP design, the ridged piece extending down the bridge of the nose. TFF and TUC continued using the Snell design introduced for the Klingon Ambassador in TVH, a year before TNG came out. The Snell version featured less bulky forehead plates and smaller ridges, and left out the ridged nose piece that was characteristic of the Westmore design. Also, Snell's design gave much subtler ridges to female Klingons (Vixis, Azetbur), much as Burman's design had with Valkris in TSFS. Westmore's Klingon females (with the exception of his first, the fantasy female conjured up by Riker in "Hide and Q") had ridges just as pronounced as the males.
It wasn't until the TNG movies that Westmore's Klingon design started being used in features -- because, of course, Westmore himself did those films.
Only found out yesterday but the Klingon female seen in Hide and Q was the same actress who played Big Mama in All the marbles (1981) and very tasty she was in that too! 
JB
JB
For what it's worth. Fred Phillips didn't have "nothing" to go on; he only had "precious little" to go on.
The top of Act Two of the shooting script for "Errand of Mercy" had the following comment:
"EXT. ORGANIAN VILLAGE STREET
"As it was before, except that we now see a squad of Klingon soldiers moving up the street, posting its members here and there as guards. As we move in closer, we see the Klingons are Orientals: hard-faced, uniformed, heavily armed, wearing what looks like vests of mail (see the material used as mail by the Romulans). The visible Organians smile at the Klingons and move quietly, passively out of their way."
So from a makeup (rather than costuming) standpoint, the Klingons needed to be "hard-faced Orientals."
The top of Act Two of the shooting script for "Errand of Mercy" had the following comment:
"EXT. ORGANIAN VILLAGE STREET
"As it was before, except that we now see a squad of Klingon soldiers moving up the street, posting its members here and there as guards. As we move in closer, we see the Klingons are Orientals: hard-faced, uniformed, heavily armed, wearing what looks like vests of mail (see the material used as mail by the Romulans). The visible Organians smile at the Klingons and move quietly, passively out of their way."
So from a makeup (rather than costuming) standpoint, the Klingons needed to be "hard-faced Orientals."
LOL. That's true, but this is what really foreshadowed the Star Trek TMP Klingon aesthetic. By Gene Roddenberry himself in 1974.Andrews' hairline foreshadowed the future appearance of Klingons from the movies onward.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kras
Kor
Spockboy
...and from that, the franchise suffered with the hack work bumpy head aliens as the central influence for decades to come.
Further, since TMP was in the same universe/continuity as TOS, to arbitrarily change Klingon appearance with no in-universe explanation seemed like a production desperate to "up" the alien factor in the wake of Star Wars.
Yet, where make-up is concerned, the first version of Pierce's Frankenstein make-up for Universal (1931) is considered the best, and the same is often said of the first Wolf Man make up (instead of the sequel applications). Even the puppet Yoda created in 1979 is universally considered superior to the Ghoulies-like rubbery puppet used in the original version of The Phantom Menace, some 20 years later, when puppet design/construction should have improved over the 1970s techniques.
Just seemed like a production with a lot more time and money.
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