The makeup for Original Series Klingons

[Marsden]

Well he played the part as a bit of a coward rather than the blood thirsty warrior types like Kor and Kang! Showing us that not all Klingons had honour even then!
JB

Honor is such a subjective thing, though. Kor was angry to be governor of a planet of sheep, but he had a fleet and an army backing him up. Kras was trying to get a foothold on Capella by himself, I don't think that's a cowardly act. Even Kang didn't seem especially honorable to me, just not stupid. Only a fool fights in a burning house.

 

[BillJ]

Even Kang didn't seem especially honorable to me, just not stupid.

Much of the time we saw Kang, he was under control of the entity. So I'm not sure "Day of the Dove" is a good gauge for the character.

 

[Marsden]

Much of the time we saw Kang, he was under control of the entity. So I'm not sure "Day of the Dove" is a good gauge for the character.

Good point.

But even then, he's a captain that's ship has been destroyed and most of his crew killed, and he's being held by the one that most likely did it. What else could he do until the phasers turned to swords?

 

[STEPhon IT]

They're a space station crew. Not historians.

So in the 4th thru the 7th seasons of DS9, the crew needed to be historians to have some common sense. What happened to the characters I once loved between "The Adversary" and "The Way of the Warrior"? Their IQ levels were terribly reduced. 24th century Klingon thinking was contagious.

 

[STEPhon IT]

And don't forget O'Brien's annoying comments about which one is Kirk too!
JB

Yeah, it kind of punched me in the gut. Yep, I'm not a fan of "Trials*"

 

[BillJ]

So in the 4th thru the 7th seasons of DS9, the crew needed to be historians to have some common sense. What happened to the characters I once loved between "The Adversary" and "The Way of the Warrior"? Their IQ levels were terribly reduced. 24th century Klingon thinking was contagious.

I'm sure if you were dropped into a random room, a hundred years ago... you'd have no issue correctly identifying Franklin D. Roosevelt.

 

[Seven of Five]

I love that Colicos played some role in the original Klingon makeup with Philips. I guess it just add to the legend that is Kor!

 

[Kor]

Yeah, it kind of punched me in the gut. Yep, I'm not a fan of "Trials*"

Mis-identifying Kirk was an intentional inside joke, since the Lieutenant that O'Brien thought was Kirk was actually played by Paul Baxley, one of Shatner's regular stunt doubles in TOS.

It's just a joke. There is absolutely no reason to be "punched in the gut" by this subtle wink and nod which really acknowledges Baxley's contribution to TOS.

Kor

 

[johnnybear]

I'm sure if you were dropped into a random room, a hundred years ago... you'd have no issue correctly identifying Franklin D. Roosevelt.

If you're an American you probably wouldn't but for the rest of us we'd have a problem! But Kirk's battles and the like would probably have been text reading for members of starfleet surely!
JB

 

[STEPhon IT]

I'm sure if you were dropped into a random room, a hundred years ago... you'd have no issue correctly identifying Franklin D. Roosevelt.

An odd example which is completely not in accordance to the crew of the DS9.
So in Trials and Tribbulations, the DS9 crew were dropped in a room? See the episode again, they were on the Defiant. The Ship does have computers.

 

[BillJ]

An odd example which is completely not in accordance to the crew of the DS9.
So in Trials and Tribbulations, the DS9 crew were dropped in a room? See the episode again, they were on the Defiant. The Ship does have computers.

*sigh*

But they didn't have them when they were aboard K-7 and mistook the Lieutenant for Kirk.

 

[STEPhon IT]

Mis-identifying Kirk was an intentional inside joke, since the Lieutenant that O'Brien thought was Kirk was actually played by Paul Baxley, one of Shatner's regular stunt doubles in TOS.

It's just a joke. There is absolutely no reason to be "punched in the gut" by this subtle wink and nod which really acknowledges Baxley's contribution to TOS.

Kor

Yes, a joke on the Desilu production, to make the Berman production look better. I know all of this historical stuff, but I don't like when new productions finds opportunities to shit on a previous one. Then goes all out to make attempts to rewrite everything (ST: ENTERPRISE) that was done from that production.
I admit, I am bias, I don't like the episode and I will never appreciate the insults it did.

 

[STEPhon IT]

If you're an American you probably wouldn't but for the rest of us we'd have a problem! But Kirk's battles and the like would probably have been text reading for members of starfleet surely!
JB

Thank you, JB. What is BillJ not understanding which I hadn't addressed already???

 

[Kor]

Trials and Tribble-ations was just fine as a thirtieth anniversary homage to TOS. The only thing I would have changed is to make the incidental music in the original style, but that's a matter of taste. I found the whole thing very entertaining as well as respectful to the original. And even if it wasn't, it's just a TV show. Why does it even matter? There are way more important things in life to be angry about.

On the actual topic of the thread, I thought the Klingon makeup in Trials and Tribble-ations was a pretty close match to the TOS look.

Kor

 

[johnnybear]

Yes, a joke on the Desilu production, to make the Berman production look better. I know all of this historical stuff, but I don't like when new productions finds opportunities to shit on a previous one. Then goes all out to make attempts to rewrite everything (ST: ENTERPRISE) that was done from that production.
I admit, I am bias, I don't like the episode and I will never appreciate the insults it did.

I've always had the feeling that Berman and Braga found the original series to be a bit of an embarrassment and they would take the odd swipe at it when they could which I found tedious! TOS may not have been a Berman production but boy are the stories better!
JB

 

[STEPhon IT]

Its also aggravating when one of Berman's lapdog Ronald D. Moore claimed to be a fan of Trek and writes stories that clearly smears all over the TOS. Remember how well he handled Captain Kirk in Generations; a character he swore he loved soooo much?

 

[Kor]

Does anybody remember the good old days when this thread used to be about Klingon makeup?

Kor

 

[BillJ]

I've watched a lot of Trek over the years, and for all the problems that the Rick Berman series had, I never felt they were out to smear TOS. I definitely don't think misidentifying Kirk was done to smear the character. Were they required to remember all of Kirk's various looks throughout the years when reading about him in history?

Some of the complaints I've seen over the years are nonsense.

 

[BillJ]

Some of it makes my head hurt...

We're going to lovingly recreate the Enterprise, K-7, interiors from both, costumes, props. Interweave material from an episode from 1966. Hunt down the original actor that played Arne Darvin. Spend all this money, and the only thing some folks remember is that we have O'Brien misidentify a character that died probably forty years before O'Brien was born. Using it as proof that Rick Berman and company hate The Original Series.

It's no wonder Trek fans are constantly laughed at and derided as nerds living in their parents basement.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, a joke on the Desilu production, to make the Berman production look better.

What? Of course not. It was a playful Easter egg to the fans, that's all. Expert TOS fans are aware that Freeman was played by Shatner's photo double, so having O'Brien mistake Freeman for Kirk was a clever in-joke, nothing more. Baxley doubled Kirk because he looked like Shatner from behind, so O'Brien's confusion actually makes sense in context. I can't imagine why you'd think there was any intent to denigrate or criticize the original production. Every production uses stand-ins, photo doubles, and stunt doubles. Sometimes they give those stand-ins and doubles on-camera roles. It's a perfectly ordinary and routine practice, so there's no conceivable reason why an in-joke acknowledgment of it would have any hostile intent.

And yes, DS9 was technically a Berman production, but he generally gave Ira Behr and his staff free rein over the show, because his attention was focused on TNG, Voyager, and the movies.