The Line Must Be Drawn Here!

[Dales]

I did not like the rehashing of wrath f khan and I did not really like the final fight of spock vs khan, this is when I finally understood some fans who criticised the new trek films for been too much about action.

if they were trying to channel wrath of khan that failed with me, wrath of khan had a serenity that into darkness lacks or lacked.

I liked the first film (trek 09) though and I feel you OP. I myself compete hate the 9/11 conspiracy theory thing. people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

 

[kirkfan]

I did not like the rehashing of wrath f khan and I did not really like the final fight of spock vs khan, this is when I finally understood some fans who criticised the new trek films for been too much about action.

if they were trying to channel wrath of khan that failed with me, wrath of khan had a serenity that into darkness lacks or lacked.

I liked the first film (trek 09) though and I feel you OP. I myself compete hate the 9/11 conspiracy theory thing. people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

To think that the original Spock invented the neck pinch because a fist fight wasn't dignified enough for a Vulcan.

 

[Makarov]

TOS had Kirk beating Khan up with a pipe so that was about action too.

"I have the strength of five men captain! I'm invincible! You'll never be able to de-" *gets hit with a pipe*

 

[M'Sharak]

[...]

people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

Someone needs a reminder about making pronouncements concerning what "people need" to do.

 

[Malformed]

The moment that disappointed me was when Kirk started kicking the dilithium alignment thingy. That was just such a "huh" ????

Seems to me that piece of tech should have had a computerized way, and then a back up manual way to achieve proper alignment.
I imagine how much more exciting it would have been if Kirk had tried those 2 approaches. The computer control wasn't working, and the manual only somewhat because of the damage so then he does the only thing left to him and kicks it the rest of the way.

Now that's Kirk

 

[Greg Cox]

I liked the first film (trek 09) though and I feel you OP. I myself compete hate the 9/11 conspiracy theory thing. people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

Okay, I'm always a little baffled when people ask to keep politics out of STAR TREK. (And, yes, I've gotten letters to that effect.)

The show has always dealt with political issues and current events: racism, religion, overpopulation, Viet Nam, nuclear war, mutual assured destruction, eugenics, war crimes, the Cold War, glastnost, saving the whales, etc.

And that's just Kirk and crew!

So why shouldn't modern-day Trek deal with modern-day politics and issues?

 

[fireproof78]

I liked the first film (trek 09) though and I feel you OP. I myself compete hate the 9/11 conspiracy theory thing. people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

Okay, I'm always a little baffled when people ask to keep politics out of STAR TREK. (And, yes, I've gotten letters to that effect.)

The show has always dealt with political issues and current events: racism, religion, overpopulation, Viet Nam, nuclear war, mutual assured destruction, eugenics, war crimes, the Cold War, glastnost, saving the whales, etc.

And that's just Kirk and crew!

So why shouldn't modern-day Trek deal with modern-day politics and issues?

Indeed. One aspect of Abrams Trek that I have enjoyed is a more contemporary sensibility and commentary on current society. There is a lot of levels to it beyond the surface of action-adventure and pacing.

The commentary may not be for everyone, but that doesn't mean it is not there.

 

[Mudd]

Leave left wing politics out of Trek and you jettison a lot of TOS. I myself like "A Taste Of Armageddon."

 

[SPCTRE]

They're fun while you're in the cinema

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02LgdXVkXgM[/yt]

 

[Jedi_Master]

I keep expecting SPCTRE to break out the "Shall not Pass" .gif from LOTR for this thread.

 

[IrishNero]

Nothing disappointed me, per se. I have watched TOS all of my life and I knew every turn in every episode by the time I was 30 so it was actually refreshing to see a new take on a classic. The opening scene in Star Trek when the pings started (right before Nero blasted the Kelvin) actually gave me goose bumps. It was like running into an old friend. The one thing that I wish they'd get to is actually exploring, now that Pike has croaked. If you have an open mind, you'll probably enjoy the new ST (and most everything else in life) much more.

 

[IrishNero]

I liked the first film (trek 09) though and I feel you OP. I myself compete hate the 9/11 conspiracy theory thing. people need to keep left wing and right wing politics out of trek.

Okay, I'm always a little baffled when people ask to keep politics out of STAR TREK. (And, yes, I've gotten letters to that effect.)

The show has always dealt with political issues and current events: racism, religion, overpopulation, Viet Nam, nuclear war, mutual assured destruction, eugenics, war crimes, the Cold War, glastnost, saving the whales, etc.

And that's just Kirk and crew!

So why shouldn't modern-day Trek deal with modern-day politics and issues?

I agree. if you watched Enterprise in the third season, you can see the Xindi attack story arc that eventually led to Captain Archer torturing a prisoner in order to gain information. This was in the years immediately following 9/11, and the subject of torture was a big subject at the time. I think we'd lose something if we didn't tackle the subjects of the day.

 

[eyeresist]

Despite speculation by fans, there's no indication in STID that Marcus was behind Harrison's attack on the Kelvin Archive

The point of the attack was to make the Starfleet brass assemble at one location, in order that Khan can attack then flee to Kronos, in order that Marcus can send Kirk to Kronos to inadvertantly start a war (starting a war with Kronos was the whole point of Marcus's plan and Harrison's actions (until he was captured by Kirk)). Admittedly, Marcus would not necessarily need to know the specifics of Khan's initial attack, but he would have to have been complicit before the fact, in order to play his part in the plan.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

The point of the attack was to make the Starfleet brass assemble at one location, in order that Khan can attack then flee to Kronos, in order that Marcus can send Kirk to Kronos to inadvertantly start a war (starting a war with Kronos was the whole point of Marcus's plan and Harrison's actions (until he was captured by Kirk)). Admittedly, Marcus would not necessarily need to know the specifics of Khan's initial attack, but he would have to have been complicit before the fact, in order to play his part in the plan.

Or Marcus had no idea Khan was going to try to kill him and then flee to Kronos and was just taking advantage of the situation to both kill Khan and his crew, and start his war with the Klingons since he saw a unique opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.

Not every villain is Emperor Palpatine manipulating everything in the universe.

 

[fireproof78]

The point of the attack was to make the Starfleet brass assemble at one location, in order that Khan can attack then flee to Kronos, in order that Marcus can send Kirk to Kronos to inadvertantly start a war (starting a war with Kronos was the whole point of Marcus's plan and Harrison's actions (until he was captured by Kirk)). Admittedly, Marcus would not necessarily need to know the specifics of Khan's initial attack, but he would have to have been complicit before the fact, in order to play his part in the plan.

Or Marcus had no idea Khan was going to try to kill him and then flee to Kronos and was just taking advantage of the situation to both kill Khan and his crew, and start his war with the Klingons since he saw a unique opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.

Not every villain is Emperor Palpatine manipulating everything in the universe.

I personally think Khan was baiting Marcus to start his war. He had enough information to speculate what Marcus might do, including bringing out the Vengeance. I think that Khan was hoping that Marcus would bring the Vengeance out so he could commandeer it.

 

[martok2112]

Agreed, fireproof78.

Left unchecked, and under Khan's control, the Vengeance would be a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Mountie1988]

Why didn't he commandeer Vengeance in the first place? How long was he going to hide on a hostile alien world that was just struck by its moon?

 

[fireproof78]

I doubt that Marcus would allow any operative but himself to operate it, at least on its maiden voyage. Though, how Scotty got on board is, of course, a security hole that really needs to be fixed

Also, once the Kelvin archive was destroyed, and Marcus knew who it was, he probably revoked Harrison's security clearance. At least, I would hope so.

 

[eyeresist]

I personally think Khan was baiting Marcus to start his war. He had enough information to speculate what Marcus might do, including bringing out the Vengeance. I think that Khan was hoping that Marcus would bring the Vengeance out so he could commandeer it.

Actually, the script is contradictory and supports both explanations:

Marcus used me to design weapons. To help him realize his vision of a militarized Starfleet. He sent you to use those weapons. To fire my torpedoes on an unsuspecting planet. And then he purposely crippled your ship in enemy space, leading to one inevitable outcome. The Klingons would come searching for whomever was responsible, and you would have no chance of escape. Marcus would finally have the war he talked about. The war he always wanted.

But

Marcus took my crew from me. ... He used my friends to control me. I tried to smuggle them to safety by concealing them in the very weapons I had designed, but I was discovered. I had no choice but to escape alone. And when I did, I had every reason to suspect that Marcus had killed every single one of the people I hold most dear. So I responded in kind.

So somehow Khan's attack on Starfleet was part of Marcus's plan AND an attempt to kill Marcus.

 

[Jeyl]

I doubt that Marcus would allow any operative but himself to operate it, at least on its maiden voyage. Though, how Scotty got on board is, of course, a security hole that really needs to be fixed

Also, once the Kelvin archive was destroyed, and Marcus knew who it was, he probably revoked Harrison's security clearance. At least, I would hope so.

So how was Khan able to operate the Vengeance after he killed Marcus?