Spoilers The Lie of the Land (Grade & Discussion Thread)
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Meh.
A weak end to a trilogy of stories.
The Monks have the technology to predict events, yet, just like last episode, couldn't predict the Doctor, even though he was included in their simulation? (And probably a simulation among many) And where was it this episode?
But, that aside, what the hell did the Monks want? Why control the planet? To what end? To convert people to a faith? For the mineral resources? To hollow out the Earth and use it as a space ship? (At least Daleks have a plan).
When one is conquering planets there is generally a reason why.
So. Not particularly impressed. Especially after a season of impressive episodes.
And of course the regeneration was a lie. It was probably done so it could be in commercials to get everyone trying to figure it out. But, people forget: Moffat isn't that clever, not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.
A weak end to a trilogy of stories.
The Monks have the technology to predict events, yet, just like last episode, couldn't predict the Doctor, even though he was included in their simulation? (And probably a simulation among many) And where was it this episode?
But, that aside, what the hell did the Monks want? Why control the planet? To what end? To convert people to a faith? For the mineral resources? To hollow out the Earth and use it as a space ship? (At least Daleks have a plan).
When one is conquering planets there is generally a reason why.
So. Not particularly impressed. Especially after a season of impressive episodes.
And of course the regeneration was a lie. It was probably done so it could be in commercials to get everyone trying to figure it out. But, people forget: Moffat isn't that clever, not nearly as clever as he thinks he is.
When this season of Doctor Who is over, what the heck was that three part trilogy about? I honestly don't Follow doctor who news that much, but I thought I heard something about these three episodes being this epic story about who was in the vault and using the Monks as a way to wrap up the Vault storyline. Well, now that we've seen all three parts, that's not what happened, and is the Doctor still guarding the Vault, thereby we still have Nardole saying he can't go anywhere?
This episode was an incoharant mess. It didn't even feel like a trilogy, but more a collection of 3 episodes that loosely dealt with the same storyline. I think they tried to connect last week to this week with the scene where the Doctor tricks Bill (And that was honestly the best scene in the episode) but this arc in and of itself didn't really do anything. The Monks came, wanted to control humanity for reasons, then leave because of love? I agree, Missy should have been a bigger part of this episode. Maybe she sacrifices her life (and we get Simm Master back or something) circling around back to the first part and how she got into the Vault in the first place. Maybe she realizes she can be good and leads the charge to defeat the monks or something. If you're going to do a 3 part arc, make it mean something because when the episode ended my first thought was, "Wait, that's it?"
I came back to Doctor Who after a really weak season 9 because I was curious as to what Moffatt and Capaldi's final season was going to be like. I'm almost regretting that decision. This show is on life support and it needs another 2005 reboot. Hopefully Chibnell and the new Doctor can provide something. I just wish Bill would stay though, because I saw a lot of Martha in Bill in last night's episode and that's the side of Martha I really liked.
On a different note, BBC America was running a marathon on Torchwood this weekend and I was watching a little bit of Children of Earth. It's so weird seeing Capaldi in the role of John Frobisher, but I wonder if something like that would have benefited how he played the doctor? Maybe not so dark, but it was more of a serious (Almost politician like) role, and I do like the shorter hair.
This episode was an incoharant mess. It didn't even feel like a trilogy, but more a collection of 3 episodes that loosely dealt with the same storyline. I think they tried to connect last week to this week with the scene where the Doctor tricks Bill (And that was honestly the best scene in the episode) but this arc in and of itself didn't really do anything. The Monks came, wanted to control humanity for reasons, then leave because of love? I agree, Missy should have been a bigger part of this episode. Maybe she sacrifices her life (and we get Simm Master back or something) circling around back to the first part and how she got into the Vault in the first place. Maybe she realizes she can be good and leads the charge to defeat the monks or something. If you're going to do a 3 part arc, make it mean something because when the episode ended my first thought was, "Wait, that's it?"
I came back to Doctor Who after a really weak season 9 because I was curious as to what Moffatt and Capaldi's final season was going to be like. I'm almost regretting that decision. This show is on life support and it needs another 2005 reboot. Hopefully Chibnell and the new Doctor can provide something. I just wish Bill would stay though, because I saw a lot of Martha in Bill in last night's episode and that's the side of Martha I really liked.
On a different note, BBC America was running a marathon on Torchwood this weekend and I was watching a little bit of Children of Earth. It's so weird seeing Capaldi in the role of John Frobisher, but I wonder if something like that would have benefited how he played the doctor? Maybe not so dark, but it was more of a serious (Almost politician like) role, and I do like the shorter hair.
Like others have said, the ending was just a bit too cornball for me and didn't make much sense. I liked Bill--her performance was great--but the overall plot is too much like the Silence story-line (maybe even a bit like Turn Left?) and suffered a bit from the comparison. There were several nice moments but overall, it really fell a bit flat.
I'm assuming that going to visit Missy was just set-up for what's going to happen in future episodes.
I'm assuming that going to visit Missy was just set-up for what's going to happen in future episodes.
Yeah, this episode seemed to completely drop the Monks' ability to predict the future. Just my fan rationalization but maybe the Monks stop using the simulation once they achieve their goal of taking a planet? After all, once the entire population is submissive, the Monks might not see the need to use the simulation anymore.
That was unclear. Just speculating, maybe the Monks like the sense of power from ruling an entire population or maybe they get a rush out of seeing if they can use their simulations to get a planet to willingly surrender their free will?
Not sure if this while people are watching House of Cards is good or bad. I had mixed feeling about it. 
I strangely enjoyed this epic trainwreck. It might be because I like Bill. It might be because the monks felt like a fishier and fishier storyline as we went on, so I was happy we were quickly done with them. Just enough excuse to put good scenes on the screen, in a storyline that made zero sense when you stop to think about it. Small things about the episode were very cool. Some very silly, like sitting across someone insufficiently older than you and calling them mother, which made me feel odd in a good way. I wonder if the monk broadcast made that feel more real to Bill than it would have otherwise. It was also cool to wonder where the Doctor stood in the opening monologue, and entertaining the possibility that the monks were also present in the moon landing recording alongside the Silence – did the post-Memory Act moon landing video feature both the monks and the Silence?
The renegeration scene was one of the few things that actually made sense. The Doctor was testing if this was Bill, and not a test by the monks, and the monks most likely knew he regenerated. So all the entire pretence was for the monks, not for Bill. Light show was still unnecessary, but a perfectly understandable if he got carried away in pretending for someone who would expect a regeneration. I wish people hadn't posted spoilers that there was going to be a regeneration in this episode, and that it would be a fake one, just ruin other people's enjoyment of the episode.
Everything else was an absurd from head to toe.
- The monks had the most downright ridiculous plan for taking over the Earth I have ever heard.
- The consent thing fits the mind broadcast thing like a shoe fits on a head.
- Waiting six months when people are getting killed on the street? Cold. Solving everything in a jiffy after waiting for six months? Very cold.
- Keeping Missy with absolutely no twists in a box? Bill and I had the same reaction on this one.
I strangely enjoyed this epic trainwreck. It might be because I like Bill. It might be because the monks felt like a fishier and fishier storyline as we went on, so I was happy we were quickly done with them. Just enough excuse to put good scenes on the screen, in a storyline that made zero sense when you stop to think about it. Small things about the episode were very cool. Some very silly, like sitting across someone insufficiently older than you and calling them mother, which made me feel odd in a good way. I wonder if the monk broadcast made that feel more real to Bill than it would have otherwise. It was also cool to wonder where the Doctor stood in the opening monologue, and entertaining the possibility that the monks were also present in the moon landing recording alongside the Silence – did the post-Memory Act moon landing video feature both the monks and the Silence?
The renegeration scene was one of the few things that actually made sense. The Doctor was testing if this was Bill, and not a test by the monks, and the monks most likely knew he regenerated. So all the entire pretence was for the monks, not for Bill. Light show was still unnecessary, but a perfectly understandable if he got carried away in pretending for someone who would expect a regeneration. I wish people hadn't posted spoilers that there was going to be a regeneration in this episode, and that it would be a fake one, just ruin other people's enjoyment of the episode.
Everything else was an absurd from head to toe.
- The monks had the most downright ridiculous plan for taking over the Earth I have ever heard.
- The consent thing fits the mind broadcast thing like a shoe fits on a head.
- Waiting six months when people are getting killed on the street? Cold. Solving everything in a jiffy after waiting for six months? Very cold.
- Keeping Missy with absolutely no twists in a box? Bill and I had the same reaction on this one.
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You'd think everyone whould know her Mom now.
The Monks left me wanting to see more of their culture. They looks like something out of the films of Amando de Ossorio. The most benign of Earth's invaders, I'm almost tempted to believe they are what is left of the individuals we saw in Mawdryn Undead .
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The problem is when we're left having to fill in all the parts of the plot that make no sense that just emphasises it's failure as a story.
Everyone forgets about the past six months but don't notice there's a huge gap in the history of the entire human race? What about all the people who died? What about the big hole in the middle of London where the Pyramid was sitting? etc. etc. etc.
Pearl Mackie staying on as Bill isn't happening. As far as I know, she's not even going to be in the Christmas special.
Chibnall, then, will have a blank slate to work from when he takes over.
Personally, I feel like Capaldi's Doctor was misconceived by Moffat. Rather than come up with a take on the role that worked for Capaldi, Moffat wrote for Capaldi like he was Matt Smith, and it took a long time, imho, for Moffat to find a take on the Doctor that worked for Capaldi.
If these had been left as the three seperate episodes they were originally before Moffat decided to put the Monks in all of them they'd probably have been a bit better. As it is the beings who were able to pluck submarines out of the water last week or model the entire planet two weeks ago don't match up with the cowards who ran away at the first sign of trouble this week.
Maybe it's for the best, but man I feel bad for Mackie only being on this season. I already like Bill more than I liked Clara and wish they would give her another season.
That information was actually released by DWM, so it's information Moffat and the BBC were okay with us having.
This was interesting. I didn't hate it, on first watch. But lots of it is rubbish.
Thematically it was interesting. After selling out Earth to save the Doctor last week, presumably in hopes that he would save her and there would be no repercussions , this week Bill is forced to accept that sometimes you just have to step up and do it yourself. The theme of free will runs through the trilogy as the sort of glue that holds them together. The first episode is about characters that have none. The second is about making bad or selfish choices with it. And the third is both about getting it back and, more directly, about being responsible enough to make the necessary choices when stuff is your fault. Not as well executed as I might have liked, certainly. But at least they gave us something a little different than our usual two parters.
Sure, the actual ending of the episode left a bit to be desired. The Power of Love gets old. But I like when they play with the idea that even a small kindness, done for no reason other than to be kind, saves the world. Eventually. That good deeds pay forward to good outcomes, at least sometimes.
Also, Missy is my favorite. I love her interactions with Capaldi. I'm sure she's playing games with him, because she's the Master, but it was worth watching.
Looking forward to next week. I have been hoping for an appearance for a while now.
Thematically it was interesting. After selling out Earth to save the Doctor last week, presumably in hopes that he would save her and there would be no repercussions , this week Bill is forced to accept that sometimes you just have to step up and do it yourself. The theme of free will runs through the trilogy as the sort of glue that holds them together. The first episode is about characters that have none. The second is about making bad or selfish choices with it. And the third is both about getting it back and, more directly, about being responsible enough to make the necessary choices when stuff is your fault. Not as well executed as I might have liked, certainly. But at least they gave us something a little different than our usual two parters.
Sure, the actual ending of the episode left a bit to be desired. The Power of Love gets old. But I like when they play with the idea that even a small kindness, done for no reason other than to be kind, saves the world. Eventually. That good deeds pay forward to good outcomes, at least sometimes.
Also, Missy is my favorite. I love her interactions with Capaldi. I'm sure she's playing games with him, because she's the Master, but it was worth watching.
Looking forward to next week. I have been hoping for an appearance for a while now.
After the three-part trilogy, which, after viewing the first part, I was disinclined to see either the second or third part, I have limited enthusiasm for next week's episode. It looks like it could be a fun romp with the Doctor and companions.
I'm not enjoying the Capaldi Doctor, he's a great actor but his series are just not cutting it for me. My niece loved Doctor Who with Matt Smith, she thinks that it is boring now and keeps asking me when is he going to regenerate. I can imagine lots of other 7 year olds thinking this at the moment too....
Overall it's a weird tone to the season- Five great standalones, then this mid-season mess of a slow-paced Trilogy Of No Fucking Narrative Sense Or Coherence whatsoever - and hopefully back to standalone goodness with the Ice Warriors next week and the Eagle Of The Ninth after that...
I tend to agree I enjoyed the first third of the season more than this 3 parter. Though I think I enjoying this season more than the previous season.
At least the monks can join an exclusive group; those aliens who have successfully conquered Earth.
1. Daleks; The Dalek Invasion of Earth
2. The Master/Toclafane; Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
3. The Monks; Extremis/The Pyramid at the End of the World/The Lie of the Land
By successfully conquered, I mean they attain a relative period of stability.
1. Daleks; The Dalek Invasion of Earth
2. The Master/Toclafane; Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
3. The Monks; Extremis/The Pyramid at the End of the World/The Lie of the Land
By successfully conquered, I mean they attain a relative period of stability.
At least they'll have plenty of spare grave space now that all of the world's corpses have turned into Cybermen and flown away.
I really hope we don't make a habit of this.
From my memory Capaldi was underused in Series 8, often getting pushed into the background so that the almighty Clara could continue to hog the limelight. This improved a lot in Series 9 (Hell Bent not withstanding), but I fear that it's too late now to really get the best out of him before he leaves.