Spoilers The Lie of the Land (Grade & Discussion Thread)

[Mr. Adventure]

I feel like I've been bamboozled. I really expected a reverse Doctor Who episode this time. Missy saving the Day and the Doctor as the Villain. Oh, well! One can dream..

That would've been an interesting approach. Y'know they couldn't help spilling the beans early though if that was the case.

The episode even left a way that it could've happened.
"Missy, how'd you escape the vault?"
"Doctor, you left me in a vault with windows!"

 

[The Wormhole]

While easily the best of this trilogy, let's be honest that's not saying anything. This episode was at least well-put together. That is there are individual scenes are really well done, like the Doctor and his soldiers raiding the Monks' pyramid and even the scene leading up to Bill shooting the Doctor, even if it is obvious just a fake-out to make the trailers look interesting by having a regeneration take place. The Doctor and Bill have the usual great scenes together, I especially liked their scene at the end with the Doctor's line about "it's because of people like you that I tolerate the rest of them." The Missy scenes were really enjoyable too even though I don't for one moment buy her redemption act.

But really, this trilogy was just dire, and this episode still isn't what I consider a great episode. It's more or less Last of the Time Lords redux and the Monks never become anything other than knock-off Silence. What was the point of the Monks anyway? Why were they interested in Earth, what were they getting out of humanity worshipping them? Why didn't Bill have some sort of place of honour in Monk world given she was the one who let them take over? Even though everyone has forgotten the Monks, six months have still gone by, and there have been some changes, like an area of London seems to have been razed to house the pyramid, there's still physical evidence of the "Memory Police," something remains of the statues, and at least one Monk was left behind after the pyramid departed. And are we really supposed to accept that the power of love is enough to protect someone from a process that is supposed to burn them to a husk?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

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[Mr Soak]

So where was the TARDIS this whole time? Did Nardole leave it at the lab? Surely he could have piloted it to Bill's place, picked her up and gone straight to the Doctor? From there, they could go straight to the vault door. Half the episode done in a couple of minutes. Time better used to expand the world building.

And the whole bloodline thing needed to keep the Monks' power going... in a period of declining birthrates and women choosing not to have children; a rather silly method of ensuring power. I don't know how Bill's homosexuality would play into that, either. It may be that she eventually wants to have her own children, or would be satisfied with other methods of creating a family. None of which was raised in the episode.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

Well, I liked it. Just like the rest of the series, it rests solely on the Doctor and Bill as characters and performers to float, and for me it did. Plus the Mistress was a lot of fun in this. So I enjoyed it on those terms.

 

[Jax]

I gave it an Average grade, it was filled with plot holes and the entire story was far too weak to serve as a trilogy. So can the Doctor just fire off regeneration energy at will WTF? it just makes the whole blind arc even more pointless. The Monks were scary looking villians and that's it really, they are never fleshed out. The whole it's passed down generations is silly, first of all Bill is GAY so its not exactly certain she would ever have kids and also what if the person passing it on randomly got hit by a car or got sick? talk about a paper think way to control the world. You think a species that was good at seeing possible outcomes would of known what the Doctor was doing, he was able to walk back into the college, then into their Pyramid and then their central hub for the whole brainwashing process with little resistance. The use of the Master was a nothing more than wasted potential in the end, she could of added far more fire to the episode and the trilogy itself.

This season's strength is clearly the 3 main characters who have been excellent because the stories themselves are inconsistent to say the least.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

^ That opens up another possible way to write in Missy, maybe because she was sealed in the vault the monks couldn't read her and plan for her in their simulations, opening it up for her to take action and be the unlikely savior.

 

[The Wormhole]

You think a species that was good at seeing possible outcomes would of known what the Doctor was doing, he was able to walk back into the college,

They had people waiting at the university, just not guarding the Vault. Which actually raises an interesting question, do the Monks even know about the Vault? The only scenes it's in in Extremis are the flashbacks and opening and closing scenes, which are the scenes not set within the simulation. If anything that should have played into how the Monks were defeated, the Doctor releases Missy from the Vault thus adding a factor they hadn't prepared for.

 

[Jax]

They had people waiting at the university, just not guarding the Vault

They did a bang up job of detecting them

If anything that should have played into how the Monks were defeated, the Doctor releases Missy from the Vault thus adding a factor they hadn't prepared for

and I agree releasing the Master would of been the way to have the story go.

 

[matthunter]

And the whole bloodline thing needed to keep the Monks' power going... in a period of declining birthrates and women choosing not to have children; a rather silly method of ensuring power. I don't know how Bill's homosexuality would play into that, either. It may be that she eventually wants to have her own children, or would be satisfied with other methods of creating a family. None of which was raised in the episode.

Actually, it WAS. Missy explained that the Monks don't KNOW about the bloodline thing. When it happens, they just assume the populace is now going along with them because they've been there so long that they've submitted without the need for the signal (accepted the Monks fake history completely). After enough generations, this might actually be the case - "coming to love Big Brother" or "I actually believed I could see five lights" on a population scale.

Where this DOESN'T occur and the Monks are overthrown, they leg it (like they did here) which probably doesn't leave them much time to figure out "oh, yeah, our lynchpin died but they didn't have kids"... And that's assuming the bloodline is broken directly and not 2 to X generations down the line.

 

[Australis]

The overall trilogy didn't really work for me. I loved "Extremis" and it was a solid set-up for the rest, but the following two episodes were a bust and the ideas felt half-baked.

+1

Don't have a lot to add. The trio were on fire with their material, and that part worked well, but the whole set up and the statues and the population turning then forgetting and the opwer of love? So, so meh.

The problem I now have is, that the story can be crap, but I have to watch because Capaldi, Lucas and Mackie are very watchable, and I will really miss them.

 

[StarMan]

Since NuWho started I've dutifully tuned in each week. Well, that was the straw that broke the camel's back. I'll be back for the finale.

What utter dreck.

 

[matthunter]

The only thing I didn't get was why all the sneaking about once the Doctor, Bill and Nardole were reunited... Nardole said he had to lay up for 6 weeks due to the bacterial infection damaging his lungs, but he was in the TARDIS - so they must have had access to it and could have materialised right in the heart of the Monks' pyramid.

Could have used a flashback showing Nardole leaving the TARDIS to find the Doctor, realising the Monks had taken over and turning back, only to find the TARDIS now being guarded by the brainwashed troopers.

 

[Orac Zen]

cultcross's post above summed it up pretty well for me.

It's a good thing Mackie / Bill is so likeable and engaging, because the drivel she's appearing in is anything but.

 

[O_Kav]

That would've been an interesting approach. Y'know they couldn't help spilling the beans early though if that was the case.

The episode even left a way that it could've happened.
"Missy, how'd you escape the vault?"
"Doctor, you left me in a vault with windows!"

I feel silly now. I was paying so much attention to Missy, thinking she was going to pull an Osgood with Bill, that I didn't even realized the vault had windows

And here I was, believing her escape would have something to do with ponies... Windows are a simpler explanation.

 

[captainkirk]

Is the vault bigger on the inside? It didn't look that big in Extremis. I assumed the windows were like the ones in the Eighth Doctor's TARDIS.

 

[Riverside2233]

What the hell did I just watch?

Massive overblown monk threat!!!! Oh no, all sorted in ten minutes by someone thinking of their mum while the Doctor shouts a meaningless 'explanation' over the top. All that setup for that?

Missy had no significant role to play and the 'Timelord with a Soul' thing is weird and a bit on the nose for a show that's normally a bit better at moral grey area. The Doctor is allowed to be morally complex, but the Master is either weeping good or cackling evil?

Standard derivative dystopia, stolen from 1984, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta, etc etc - even the First Order from TFA got a costume based nod. We only saw it all for a few minutes and never got to appreciate what live was like in this world so it's hard to care very much about them overthrowing it or feel a sense of overwhelming odds.

The fake out regeneration we all saw coming was a literal fakeout regeneration? Ok, fine. Can the doctor generate regeneration light shows at will, or was that him totally wasting it for a performance? And what was the point of the performance given that Bill had no reason to expect that to happen? Was it just so they had those shots for the trailer?

Nardole having the bacteria was entirely irrelevant to the plot, then? Why bother infecting him at all? And if the Doctor's managed to free all his guards, find nardole, hatch a plan, and dispatch him to the mainland, why exactly does he need to wait for Bill to find him before going straight back to the university that Bill came from in order to enter the vault? Why not just skip straight to that bit? He doesn't know he needs Bill to fix this until after he's spoken to Missy.

Worst episode I've seen in a long while.

Agreed. The entire Monk arc is an intriguing plot in itself, but the execution of the story felt off. Every resolution came a little too swiftly and some of the better characters (Missy) were barely a footnote to the whole thing.

Also, BBC American takes the weirdest, most random, most climax-interrupting commercial breaks I have ever seen. Pretty much, "Oh, you're in the middle of an important scene, viewer? Let's take a break to pay some bills."

 

[kirk55555]

This is a mediocre episode that Missy and a few moments (like The Doctor on the boat as it charges through a bridge) manage to raise to the level of average. The Monks still suck, their plan sucks, and the dystopia world is boring and just awful. But Missy was good, and her speech to The Doctor about there being different types of good was very interesting. Bill and Nardole were ok, and The Doctor had some good moments (like the charging boat scene I mentioned, and the reaction after Bill "shot" him).

So, when it comes to the trilogy, in my opinion the first episode was the best (if it hadn't ended up all being a simulation I would have called it an outright good episode), this at #2 and the second episode as just a bad episode. Hopefully it goes up hill from here.

 

[The Wormhole]

they must have had access to it and could have materialised right in the heart of the Monks' pyramid.

I suppose an argument can be made the Monks could detect the TARDIS and using it could have tipped their hand prematurely. Other episodes have gone with this logic while dealing with enemies less advanced than the Monks.

 

[diankra]

The only thing I didn't get was why all the sneaking about once the Doctor, Bill and Nardole were reunited... Nardole said he had to lay up for 6 weeks due to the bacterial infection damaging his lungs, but he was in the TARDIS - so they must have had access to it and could have materialised right in the heart of the Monks' pyramid.

Could have used a flashback showing Nardole leaving the TARDIS to find the Doctor, realising the Monks had taken over and turning back, only to find the TARDIS now being guarded by the brainwashed troopers.

Nardole tells us/Bill that during the test, so it might not be true.
The previous week, I'd assumed Nardole had been gassed by an over-heating fluid link, given the sound effect and the set-up mention of them in Oxygen.