Spoilers The Lie of the Land (Grade & Discussion Thread)

[The Wormhole]

So here's a thought which actually ties into a comment I made in my review post about the physical evidence of the Monks still being around after they left. EG, the vehicles and equipment of the Memory Police still being around, did the MP personnel return to their old jobs after an unexplained six month absence and so forth. What about the people who were arrested and sent to the internment camps? They're still there, and now that the Monk occupation has been forgotten, there's no one around who remembers putting them in there.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

My goodness, this story was bad on burnt toast.

The fake-out regeneration and all the "GOTCHAS!" of this episode were downright insulting, especially given that Bill wouldn't even really know what was going on; strictly filmed for us to all flip-out at once. And as I was watching his regeneration start, mixed in with how over the top the scene was directed, I got instantly mad that a fake-out was coming. Seeing the scenes from the trailer and realizing, 'you stupid bastard, how did you not see this nonsense coming. How dare you let him lead you here. Shame on you for thinking that Moffat wouldn't deliver ham to you.'

I was really hoping that the third episode of this trilogy that didn't need to happen would deliver. Not only did it not deliver, but it was an episode built on reset buttons. Rehashed ideas presented in rehashed settings. I'll admit the scenes where Bill sees her mother in the brain-drain room were pretty touching, but it felt like...a completely visceral type of touching...almost manipulative. As if to say, we know this scene doesn't make sense, hell the whole premise of the episode is on a wonky premise, so we'll tear at your heart by throwing in her mother.

Not only did I not like this episode, but I really felt like Moffat pat himself on the back for it once he was finished. That's the part that hurts the most.

But maybe the next episodes will be great! Optimism lives.

 

[TommyR01D]

Sandifer has pointed out something: the Monks don't say a word in this episode. They spoke several times in their two previous appearances, but here this time they were reduced to background extras.

Another thing I've noticed: the companion's mother hasn't even been given a name yet.

 

[Professor Zoom]

They're still there, and now that the Monk occupation has been forgotten, there's no one around who remembers putting them in there.

And so... they starve to death.

 

[Burning Hearts of Qo'nos]

What of the people that actually died during that time, too? Are loved ones going to just think, "Oh and then my wife died...of something or other, whatever it was a long summer; I forget." The logistics of having the entire Earth 'forgetting' about the monks.. I can't even put it into words. It's just baffling. Now that I think about it, that girl at the end that comments on the statues being part of a movie, she might as well have finished with, "Haha, that's right, a movie!" and then wink at the camera.

It's like Moffat wanted to double down on the implausibility of people 'forgetting' things at the end of previous re-set episodes.

 

[The Wormhole]

Here's another thought, during the Monk occupation, wouldn't UNIT have been disbanded, and perhaps even erased from the records? After all, the last thing an alien occupation force wants to keep around is a dedicated anti-alien military intelligence service, and since the Monks enforced history says they've been protecting humanity since the dawn of time, one wonders why UNIT would even have to have been formed in that history.

 

[Starkers]

Hey remember that time a giant robot smashed up Victorian London? (And I forget, was that before or after a tyrannosaurus smashed up Victorian London?) And who can forget Nessie swimming up the Thames, the Dalek invasion, the Cyberman invasion, that other Cyberman invasion...

I think there comes a point where you just have to accept that ridiculous things will happen and the general populace will forget/ignore them. It's part of the charm of the show, surely? And actually I think I've changed my tune on this and lean more towards RTD. Moffat has gone out of his way to try and explain it at times (Amy's crack, f'nar f'nar) whilst RTD just shrugged, and I think just shrugging is probably the way to go.

 

[Mr Soak]

I love humans. Always seeing patterns in things that aren't there. And then promptly forgetting.

 

[Tom]

At least RTD did not have everyone forget for the most part. Then along comes Moffatt and comes up with stupid reasons everyone will forget these alien incursions

 

[TommyR01D]

The problem is that it isn't simply a matter of forgetting - these numerous incursions have physical consequences which can't be ignored. No amount of perception filtering or amnesia pill drugging can cover up the millions of disappeared corpses, the giant holes in city centres, the shattered shop windows, the smashed clock towers and the disintegrated presidents.

 

[The Wormhole]

Hey remember that time a giant robot smashed up Victorian London? (And I forget, was that before or after a tyrannosaurus smashed up Victorian London?) And who can forget Nessie swimming up the Thames, the Dalek invasion, the Cyberman invasion, that other Cyberman invasion...

To be honest, the Monk occupation seems a bit harder to just collectively shrug off and pretend it didn't happen. This is six months worth of people being kidnapped from their homes, detained and murdered, not to mention the entire world's infrastructure being re-directed to service the Monks. I know that's exactly what is going to do down, but something of this scale just being shrugged off as "you know, there was that six month period I vaguely remember..." just seems to be going too far into ridiculous territory.

Then again, RTD had the world turned upside down with civil liberties suspended in the free world in Miracle Day and just because someone bled into a giant anus and restored mortality to humanity, everything reverted to normal overnight, and that's without the benefit of alien perception filters causing everyone to forget.

 

[Starkers]

To be honest, the Monk occupation seems a bit harder to just collectively shrug off and pretend it didn't happen. This is six months worth of people being kidnapped from their homes, detained and murdered, not to mention the entire world's infrastructure being re-directed to service the Monks. I know that's exactly what is going to do down, but something of this scale just being shrugged off as "you know, there was that six month period I vaguely remember..." just seems to be going too far into ridiculous territory.

Then again, RTD had the world turned upside down with civil liberties suspended in the free world in Miracle Day and just because someone bled into a giant anus and restored mortality to humanity, everything reverted to normal overnight, and that's without the benefit of alien perception filters causing everyone to forget.

I was talking about this with someone on Twitter. One the one hand in classic Who alien invasions rarely got out of the home counties, so you could argue it was easier for the Brigadier or a man from the ministry to hush up, these days the aliens have to take over teh entire world! Of course even if Who went back to doing cosy invasions (is that even a thing?) times have changed. With smartphones and social media it'd be much harder for the government to cover up when Daleks took over Hemel Hempstead or something, but it would still be easier than explaining away a world wide invasion.

Whether Chibnall will change tack or not is anyone's guess. "We can only be engaged if the whole world is taken over" might be the new default, much like "We can only relate to a companion from modern day earth (preferably London)"

I'd like to see more future invasions like in The Dalek Invasion of Earth or Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways. But then I'd also like to see more non human/non present day companions as well.

 

[The Wormhole]

I was talking about this with someone on Twitter. One the one hand in classic Who alien invasions rarely got out of the home counties, so you could argue it was easier for the Brigadier or a man from the ministry to hush up, these days the aliens have to take over teh entire world! Of course even if Who went back to doing cosy invasions (is that even a thing?) times have changed. With smartphones and social media it'd be much harder for the government to cover up when Daleks took over Hemel Hempstead or something, but it would still be easier than explaining away a world wide invasion.

There are still ways, like with the Silurian story in S5 taking place in an isolated community which was further cut off by the Silurians putting a shield around the town.

Whether Chibnall will change tack or not is anyone's guess. "We can only be engaged if the whole world is taken over" might be the new default, much like "We can only relate to a companion from modern day earth (preferably London)"

Well, Chibnall did write the aforementioned Silurian story, and even on Torchwood's first two seasons when things did get to the point where all Cardiff noticed there was usually a plausible reason for why everyone shrugged it off, although that huge devil creature stomping around Cardiff at the end of season 1 certain pushed credibility in that regard.

Alas, though, I suspect we probably will continue with over the top finales affecting the whole world under Chibnall. This is an adventure series after all, and nothing generates more excitement than the whole world under threat.

 

[Mr Awe]

I love the notion of "cozy invasions!" If it's not a thing, it should be!

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Several steps up from the first two parts. Feels like typical nuWho story-wise, but I simply loved the interaction between the Doctor, Bill, and Nardole. On that basis, I'm going with "C'est super!" Bill is an excellent companion, primarily because of Pearl Mackie.

 

[Emperor-Tiberius]

The problem is that it isn't simply a matter of forgetting - these numerous incursions have physical consequences which can't be ignored. No amount of perception filtering or amnesia pill drugging can cover up the millions of disappeared corpses, the giant holes in city centres, the shattered shop windows, the smashed clock towers and the disintegrated presidents.

He basically turned humans into the residents of Springfield, from The Simpsons.

 

[TommyR01D]

The poll mean is 3.02, swinging -0.78 compared to Series 9. The verdict was I'm engaged in the process.

 

[DimesDan]

he poll mean is 3.02, swinging -0.78 compared to Series 9. The verdict was I'm engaged in the process

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Another comparison that stood out for me, was the similarity to the game X-COM 2.
The monks were essentially the Elders/Ethereals.
Only a hand full of them surviving but on the verge of extinction after being hunted by something far worse.
To ensure their survival they enslaved dozens of alien species including humans, trying to find a genetic match that enables them to enhance and stabilize their own species by abducting and butchering millions to experiment on.
They establish a gruesome, fascistic dictatorship and hide it behind a utopian facade and a telepathic psi-network keeping the general population docile.