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Spoilers The Lie of the Land (Grade & Discussion Thread)

What's your view?

  • Doubleplusgood!

    Votes: 4 7.7%
  • C'est super!

    Votes: 10 19.2%
  • I'm engaged in the process.

    Votes: 23 44.2%
  • It's really quite annoying.

    Votes: 13 25.0%
  • I'm gonna beat the sh-

    Votes: 2 3.8%

  • Total voters
    52
  • Poll closed .

TommyR01D

Captain
Captain
Our trilogy of tedium concludes with this episode by Toby Whithouse. The Doctor has regained his sight, but at what cost?

The whole world has fallen under the sway of a mass delusion, and it seems only Bill Potts can see through it. Even the Doctor is unable to comprehend the truth, meaning it is up to Bill to set the record straight by persuading her friend that humanity is in deadly danger. But a Time Lord's conviction is not easily broken, and with the fate of an entire species on the line, if Bill cannot get the Doctor on-side, she may find herself forced to kill him. Sci-fi drama, with Pearl Mackie, Peter Capaldi and Matt Lucas and guest star Michelle Gomez.

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Has the human race been condemned to eternal subjugation? Is the Doctor going to fake his death again? Will this all be a convoluted soapbox about Donald Trump?

Find out tonight in... The Lie of the Land.
 
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Better, not great, but getting there. (the OP, not the episode, I've not seen the episode yet) and well done for leaving it just four hours or so till kick-off this week.

Although I wouldn't call it a trilogy of tedium given I have been enjoying the previous two episodes and look forward to this one.
 
  1. The first act had some very clear shades of Nineteen Eighty-Four, right down to the blue overalls.
  2. There were also some similarities with Adam.
  3. The university seems to be called St Luke's and not Burke's as I previously thought.
  4. The Monks definitely feel like an offshoot of the Silence concept.
  5. I can't help but wonder if the original script had a longer list of items between racism and talking in cinemas.
 
Good episode, maybe the best of the trilogy perhaps. Got some "The Sound of Drums/Last of the Timelords" vibes from this episode. I also noticed the shop at the beginning where all the TVs with the Doctor on was Magpie Electronics, a reference from "The Idiots Lantern".

Also, really like the Doctor's distressed jacket.
 
Again, a really good episode which rounded off the trilogy. Bill is my third favourite companion of Nu-Who.
 
That was quite good, but I can't help feeling it got weaker the longer it went on. The world run by the Monks was interesting early on, I liked the idea of the memory act 1975 (or whatever it was) and the Doctor as mouthpiece for the Monks was a nice idea. I like as well the allusions to both the last series of Sherlock and (more pertinent from a Who standpoint) The Sea Devils, with the Doctor this time mesmerising (or un-mesmerising) his guards the same way the Master did back then. I liked as well that Bill shot the Doctor, no hesitation, can you imagine how long it would have taken Clara to decide to do that?

But...

Why did the Doctor fake a regeneration? Who was that for? Bill doesn't know about regenerations and everyone else in the room knew the Doctor was fooling so really it was there for the viewers, which kinda pulled me out of things.

Also the resolution was a bit weak to say the least. So Bill didn't end up a husk after all?

Still a lot to enjoy, the 1984 vibe (as has been mentioned) Hannibal Missy was fun, and Capaldi was downright creepy playing the bad-doctor. Bill was great as was Nardole, he didn't get much to do but damn if Lucas isn't making the most of every line he gets!

Some nice allusions to fake news and fascism but, for a third part of a trilogy, it felt rushed and whilst the trilogy has had some nice elements I think overall it's been slightly less than the sum of it's parts.

Next week though. Redcoats vs. Ice Warriors! Please be a good Gatiss one, please be a good Gatiss one...
 
What the hell did I just watch?

Massive overblown monk threat!!!! Oh no, all sorted in ten minutes by someone thinking of their mum while the Doctor shouts a meaningless 'explanation' over the top. All that setup for that?

Missy had no significant role to play and the 'Timelord with a Soul' thing is weird and a bit on the nose for a show that's normally a bit better at moral grey area. The Doctor is allowed to be morally complex, but the Master is either weeping good or cackling evil?

Standard derivative dystopia, stolen from 1984, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta, etc etc - even the First Order from TFA got a costume based nod. We only saw it all for a few minutes and never got to appreciate what live was like in this world so it's hard to care very much about them overthrowing it or feel a sense of overwhelming odds.

The fake out regeneration we all saw coming was a literal fakeout regeneration? Ok, fine. Can the doctor generate regeneration light shows at will, or was that him totally wasting it for a performance? And what was the point of the performance given that Bill had no reason to expect that to happen? Was it just so they had those shots for the trailer?

Nardole having the bacteria was entirely irrelevant to the plot, then? Why bother infecting him at all? And if the Doctor's managed to free all his guards, find nardole, hatch a plan, and dispatch him to the mainland, why exactly does he need to wait for Bill to find him before going straight back to the university that Bill came from in order to enter the vault? Why not just skip straight to that bit? He doesn't know he needs Bill to fix this until after he's spoken to Missy.

Worst episode I've seen in a long while.
 
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What the hell did I just watch?

Massive overblown monk threat!!!! Oh no, all sorted in ten minutes by someone thinking of their mum while the Doctor shouts a meaningless 'explanation' over the top. All that setup for that?

Missy had no significant role to play and the 'Timelord with a Soul' thing is weird and a bit on the nose for a show that's normally a bit better at moral grey area. The Doctor is allowed to be morally complex, but the Master is either weeping good or cackling evil?

Standard derivative dystopia, stolen from 1984, Equilibrium, V for Vendetta, etc etc - even the First Order from TFA got a costume based nod. We only saw it all for a few minutes and never got to appreciate what live was like in this world so it's hard to care very much about them overthrowing it or feel a sense of overwhelming odds.

The fake out regeneration we all saw coming was a literal fakeout regeneration? Ok, fine. Can the doctor generate regeneration light shows at will, or was that him totally wasting it for a performance? And what was the point of the performance given that Bill had no reason to expect that to happen? Was it just so they had those shots for the trailer?

Worst episode I've seen in a long while.

I'd agree with a lot of that, yet oddly I still quite liked it. Maybe just how engaging Capaldi/Mackie/Lucas are?
 
I liked it. Weirdly, it seemed reminiscent of a few other plot-lines (the silence for example), but also different enough for it not to bother me. However, as with most things YMMV.

As to The Doctor faking his regeneration, after six months planning this, he probably just got carried away with the role. He does sometimes like to show how clever he can be after all.
 
Eh...while it wasn't as predictable as I feared it would be, it still ultimately led to a reset button where no one but the heroes remember what happened. I hated that when it happened with "The Last of the Time Lords" and I hate it now. At least the whole "The Doctor is regenerating!" business was dealt with right away and it was the blatant misdirection that we all expected it to be, albeit the nature of the misdirection wasn't what I expected. That being said, I don't like the notion of push comes to shove, Bill will shoot The Doctor if she thinks he's gone bad.

The main highlight of the episode was Missy's first scene. The rapport between Capaldi and Gomez continues to be wonderful, even if I don't buy Missy's "I'm trying to change" act and I certainly don't buy her crocodile tears at the end. I did like her point about being good isn't an absolute and that The Doctor can't expect her to become his kind of good. I hope that theme is continued to be explored for the remainder of her appearances this season.

The only other major highlight was this line from Nardole: "Oh, well, that's not that weird. I once had an imaginary friend. He left me for someone else. Heh! I know, charming!"

The rest of the episode with the Monks was pretty pedestrian. Others seemed to enjoy the dystopia aspects, but I thought it was rather flat and uninspired. Plus, we never found out their motivation for world domination other than "because they could, so why not?"

The overall trilogy didn't really work for me. I loved "Extremis" and it was a solid set-up for the rest, but the following two episodes were a bust and the ideas felt half-baked. Especially disappointing with Toby Whitehouse because he's normally good to excellent. Makes me wonder what his episode was like before Moffat decided to forcibly merge the three episodes into a trilogy.

A minor pet peeve: I'm disappointed Doctor Who repeated the claim that Thomas Edison invented the light bulb. :scream:

That was quite good, but I can't help feeling it got weaker the longer it went on. The world run by the Monks was interesting early on, I liked the idea of the memory act 1975 (or whatever it was) and the Doctor as mouthpiece for the Monks was a nice idea. I like as well the allusions to both the last series of Sherlock and (more pertinent from a Who standpoint) The Sea Devils, with the Doctor this time mesmerising (or un-mesmerising) his guards the same way the Master did back then.
I did like the allusions to The Third Doctor. This might have been just me, but the little key/lever that The Doctor turned before opening the Vault felt like a callback to The Third Doctor as well.

Why did the Doctor fake a regeneration? Who was that for? Bill doesn't know about regenerations and everyone else in the room knew the Doctor was fooling so really it was there for the viewers, which kinda pulled me out of things.
Yeah, that bothered me as well. The whole purpose of that bit felt like "Let's create a fake regeneration so we can throw it into the trailer and mess with fans!" :rolleyes:

Also the resolution was a bit weak to say the least. So Bill didn't end up a husk after all?
That really bugged me. What was the point of building up the tension about Bill becoming brain dead if then she's going to be fine...without any explanation for why she was fine?! Because of her memory of her mum? What tosh.

Massive overblown monk threat!!!! Oh no, all sorted in ten minutes by someone thinking of their mum while the Doctor shouts a meaningless 'explanation' over the top. All that setup for that?
That whole sequence felt like Davies at his bombastic worst.
 
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I wasn't really crazy with how it all resolved to this one but it was a good showcase for Bill and it was an interesting setup/setting. I couldn't help wondering if this episode might not have been better served without the previous two. Just dropped into the episode in media res would've helped some of the problems by making it fun just trying to figure out what was going on. Since it barely touched base with the episodes that preceded it I think it would have made for a more involving watch. Like I said I think the setting of the story was more interesting than the actual events of the plot and I think that would've made the most of the positive elements. Not sure the Missy reveal added much, maybe could've saved that for another episode where it could've had more impact.

Really disliked the line "I thought I was just being nice but I saved the world." which I felt took away from the moment, I think it would have worked better unsaid, I'm sure everyone "got" it. The Doctor was a bit of an ass in this one being needlessly rude and dismissive to the woman with appalling hair and laughing at Bill who was likely quite traumatized by the decision to murder her mentor and friend. That felt a little more early Capaldi Doctor than what we've seen this series.
 
If I live to be a 100 it would still be too soon for another sodding power of luv saves the day ending. After starting off so well the series has really nose dived over the past few weeks and I'm just so happy that 5 more episodes and Moffat's gone for good.
 
If I live to be a 100 it would still be too soon for another sodding power of luv saves the day ending. After starting off so well the series has really nose dived over the past few weeks and I'm just so happy that 5 more episodes and Moffat's gone for good.

The annoying thing is that his resignation still won't have meaningful effect for well over a year.

The whole purpose of that bit felt like "Let's create a fake regeneration so we can throw it into the trailer and mess with fans!" :rolleyes:

The philosophy you describe had been eating into Doctor Who's creative process for several years now.
 
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If I live to be a 100 it would still be too soon for another sodding power of luv saves the day ending. After starting off so well the series has really nose dived over the past few weeks and I'm just so happy that 5 more episodes and Moffat's gone for good.
The annoying thing is that his resignation still won't have meaningful effect for well over a year.
I still think Moffat is a good writer when he's not trying to be grandiose. Problem is since becoming the show runner, that has been his writing style for the majority of his episodes. I'm not fan of his overall take of the show since Amy and Rory left (although it was already beginning to decline before they left), so I'm, much to my own surprise, looking forward to his departure. The show is in desperate need for fresh blood. Bill and Nardole have been fine additions this season, but many of the overall problems remain, particular trying too hard to be grandiose and being Earthbound.

A lot of the problems which Doctor Who has suffered over the last few years can be traced back to the thought process you describe.
This is indeed another problem. This is should not be a standard for storytelling.
 
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The fake regeneration was strictly for our benefit, as Bill wouldn't have a frame of reference. That's my biggest problem with it. Had it been a true fakeout, the Doctor would have fallen lifeless to the floor and Nardole would have been screaming at her for killing the Doctor. That tossed me out of the story, but the rest of it drew me back in.
 
I feel like I've been bamboozled. I really expected a reverse Doctor Who episode this time. Missy saving the Day and the Doctor as the Villain. Oh, well! One can dream.

About the episode itself:

I feel it's like Rings of Akhaten all over again. Loved the fact that Bill has the courage of killing the Doctor if he (supposedly) turns evil and that Missy is (supposedly too) responding to rehabilitation. But that resolution of the whole Episode. Yaaawwnnnn...

I don't understand how in the year 2017 a Writer can still think "power of love" is a novelty concept. We haven't even been properly introduced to Bill's Mom yet. Clara's Leaf had at least a little bit more of an emotional background, innit ?

BTW I thought they were going for the "Tenth Doctor's Vanity" route when she shot him. I was already imagining he was going to be like "Sup! Thank you Bill for making me regenerate... The energy actually broke the brainwashing thing they did on me! Anyway, eleven more to go!" but they went for "It's just a prank bro" instead.
 
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