Spoilers The legacy of Star Trek: Picard?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Eddie Roth, Apr 23, 2023.

  1. Arpy

    Arpy Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 22, 2001
    Haven’t thought about this very much and I’m still basking in my enjoyment of the season, but it does strike me as another nail in the coffin for the brighter more aspirational TNG ethos. We got that warm and fuzzy moment when the nebula gave birth and the effect it had on a damaged Riker, but overall…it wasn’t a grim dark series but it was darker in multiple ways and about trauma and broken people. This is all the sauce of a writer, not so much the philosopher. I think what many of us here and more casual fans the world over liked about TNG (the show this season was all about bringing back to much enthusiasm) was the transcendent worldview of it beyond our own, and that, no, was not much present in this sendoff.

    If we’re talking legacy of this series, it’ll be good character work and performances, a reawakening maybe of the focus on the Bergman era, a return to the “present,” more cursing lol…other stuff…
    CrockAlley and Bad Thoughts like this.
  2. Pubert

    Pubert Vice Admiral Admiral

    Dec 13, 2014
    It wasn't perfect but it was better than that awful 2nd season. I'm mean a dark château and Picard watching his mom commit suicide because she was mentally ill not what I would call good star trek. The 3rd season was much better.
  3. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Nov 4, 2001
    AI Generated Madness
    Give it a rest.
    Richard S. Ta likes this.
  4. ReddishAlert

    ReddishAlert Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 25, 2023
    Dallas, Texas
    Firstly, I’ll say I enjoyed it. The first and third season more so than the second. But I’ll rewatch the whole thing sometime and maybe I’ll like season 2 more.

    I think it had one persistent issue in storytelling in all three seasons that prevented it from being totally satisfying narrative wise and feel sometimes clumsy. Mainly that they threw in too much to really explore a lot of things. So a lot of it felt narratively like a mile wide and inch deep. I watched it more as a “character piece” and so I enjoyed it more I think than some.

    I think showing characters after a long gap is tricky. Real people change and stay the same in complex ways. I’ve reconnected with friends before after gaps. It’s amazing how in one moment they seem just like themselves and the next like a stranger.

    I think sometimes Picard did this well (Picard season 1, Geordi and Riker especially -season 3, Seven 1-3 etc).

    Other times they did it poorly. If on the one hand season 3 was admittedly prone to nostalgia, season 1 and 2 had the opposite problem of the lazy “things have more meaning if everything is depressing because sorrow is serious” trope that made the Star Wars movies idiotic.

    I think all three seasons of Picard sometimes stray too much one way or the other but have moments where it really works and actually added a new dimension to the character.

    But I definitely think I’ll like all three seasons more simply because it’s hard when a show is new to not watch it and compare it to what you hope it will be. Especially serialized shows. I can watch it next time without trying to anticipate. I mean I had 20 years wishing to see them back together. So I had a lot of emotions/thoughts clouding my views.

    Glad they made it. Think all three seasons are better than people give it credit for being. Looking forward to watching all three back to back without the Christmas-day anticipation and just enjoying the characters.
    fireproof78 and Arpy like this.
  5. urbandk

    urbandk Commodore Commodore

    Aug 20, 2008
    DFW, Texas
    I still want someone to explain what season 2 was supposed to be. I think i might have really liked whatever season 2 tried and failed to do
    burningoil, Galaxy and CrockAlley like this.
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Vice Admiral Admiral

    Jun 19, 2013
    Bad Thoughts
    Telling us that we don't need to do all the hard work suggested in Past Tense. We just need to search for supercool molecules to solve our problems.
    Anduinel and vulcancicada like this.
  7. vulcancicada

    vulcancicada Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 14, 2023
    Season 2 wasn't all bad. I was super into the Agnes/borg queen thing. I just wanted them to have sex but becoming one entity was even better! It also brought me comfort during that time period to just see Stewart as Picard.
  8. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

    Sep 3, 2016
    Southern Oregon
    A lot of the issues with S2 is because it was in the heart of Covid and had to struggle with those challenges. S1 being a pre-covid production didn't have those challenges and S3 being semi-post Covid didn't either.
  9. IRW Bloodwing

    IRW Bloodwing Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 17, 2021
    The legacy is going to be controversy, I'm afraid. Even now, TM is taking heat on multiple fora over rechristening the Titan as the new Enterprise.
  10. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

    Sep 3, 2016
    Southern Oregon
    He was going to take heat for anything related to the show.
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  11. Timofnine

    Timofnine Saintly henchman of Santa Premium Member

    Feb 25, 2001
    North Pole
    A new Enterprise and Captain Seven of Nine. :adore:
    ReddishAlert likes this.
  12. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Apr 11, 2014
    Journeying onwards
    By making a Trek show he was going to take heat.

    And why is controversy seen as a bad thing?
  13. Racefuel

    Racefuel Commodore Commodore

    Sep 3, 2016
    Southern Oregon
    Star Trek is no stranger to controversy.

    Renaming a fictional ship to another fictional ship is kind of silly but so very much in like for the more rigid members of our community
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  14. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Nov 5, 2008
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    The show's legacy? A fucking mess. Basically 3 totally different shows. Amazing highs, shameful lows. Weird self hate for it's own prior seasons by the end.
    StarMan, burningoil, Campe and 6 others like this.
  15. CrockAlley

    CrockAlley Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Apr 6, 2023
    Ask again in 10 years.
    fireproof78 likes this.
  16. Jellico

    Jellico Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Mar 26, 2019
    I really enjoyed the season and the entire show. The legacy of Picard might not be very different than the legacy of TNG.
    There’s a promise of a future.
  17. Airmandan

    Airmandan Captain Captain

    May 30, 2017
    I thought season 1 had some pretty neat ideas, however I think they tried to jam too much into the season. To have completely bypassed season 2 and rolled that budget into season 3 would have gotten you a much better and intricate storyline. You could have had the season 3 storyline stretched over 2 seasons and been able to better utilize both old and new casts.
  18. Arpy

    Arpy Vice Admiral Admiral

    Apr 22, 2001
    People really need to calm down. There was a lot I didn’t like about the series but it was better than a lot of other stuff out there Trek, and certainly a series I actually tuned in to watch unlike a lot of other television, prestige and otherwise.

    I liked the first season much more than the second and regret Chabon couldn’t stay. I wonder what he might have come up with for the second season, especially in one without COVID. Romulans in the first season, Tholians in the second?

    Another bit of post PIC effect might be the doubling down on serialization. SNW blew up and one wondered if Trek would lean more episodic, especially after DSC wasn’t renewed. I wonder if after the success of this season, serialization has more fans. I’m not sure this is the kind of serialization, the 10-hour movie, that I like, that we’ve seen in previous seasons (esp the second) to less success. DS9 probably did it best with individual episodes still being more distinct and satisfying while part of a much larger storyline.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
  19. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Jul 23, 2001
    The Wormhole
    The butthurt over the Titan being renamed Enterprise G will linger for a few weeks but will otherwise blow over and won't be what this series gets remembered for.
  20. Uhura's Song

    Uhura's Song Captain Captain

    Oct 5, 2017
    In terms of legacy, it is too early to tell. I think one thing that is true, is that S3 was a hit, and that is a good thing for the franchise, full stop.

    I, for one, am glad they did it. My first thought, and hope, once the show was announced, was that the TNG cast would get a proper sendoff To do the show and NOT do that would have been malpractice.

    And if you are gonna do it, you have to do it last. You cannot start out with nostalgia, it has to be more. Generally I liked S1 & S2 more than most, and liked S3 a bit less.

    I thought S1 was excellent until the last 2 eposodes, and even that had the wonderful Data/Picard scene. The sonic screwdriver solution and a super secret sect of a broken and dispersed civilization having hundreds of ships at their disposal were both ridiculous.

    I dug the Seven & Jurati/Borg Queen arcs in S2. I minded the not so subtle shots at authoritarianism, bigotry, racism, and ICE not one bit. I cheered them. I love Pat Penatar. Still, there were issues. I did not mind Rios' resolution at all, and I enjoyed the Finale of S2 more than S3. In fact, S2 started & ended well, IMHO.

    I don't mind Trek being dark or exploring trauma some. I liked DS9 and nuBSG. A lot. TNG still my favorite. TOS 2nd.

    I am in the camp that feels S3 was the best from start to finish. But not a masterpiece. Avoided the lows but the highs didn't quite resonate as much for me for some reason.

    As for the legacy, I do not share the view/fear that all future Trek will somehow embark on copycating the S3 playbook from Picard. I disagree that S3 was all fanwank and therefore terrible. But that is another conversation.

    I think the vision for Trek is to have different types of shows for different folks. DISCO was darker & edgier to start. SNW is the episodic exploration/optimism show. Prodigy is for kids. LD is adult satire. IDK what the Academy show will be like. But my point is that they are not gonna make 3/4/5 types of the same show.