It's unlikely that any such thing ever crossed his mind.
"Canon" is an obsession of some fans, not of the folks who created Trek.
The Legacy of Harve Bennett?
- Thread starter TiberiusK
- Start date
It's unlikely that any such thing ever crossed his mind.
"Canon" is an obsession of some fans, not of the folks who created Trek.
siskokid888 said:
jon1701 said:
TheBrew said:
STII was true to Star Trek but TNG wasn't?
STII was fun to watch and a good movie, but what did it have to do with ideals of Star Trek?
The characters are more alive in Trek II than in TMP, where everyone walks around with a stick up their arse. I know the militaristic stuff in Trek II was layered on with a trowel, but Roddenberry conveniently forgets the action-adventure elements that made TOS what it was. Kirk got into fist-fights, he chased alien birds, he blew shit up.
He retconned the future by the time it got round to TNG, blurred the edges with his other failed TV pilots (Genesis II, Planet Earth), which pretty much flew in the face of most of TOS.
You could tell he was on drugs. He wanted to de-canon TOS
The characters in TMP are 10 times closer to the TOS originals then anything in any of the Bennett films. The Kirk of II thru VI bears no resemblance to the TOS or TMP Kirk; he is a completely different character (and a much weaker one). Hell, Braga and Moore's take on Kirk in Generations was closer to the TOS Kirk then anything Bennet did. Where's The God Thing when you need him?
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Kirk acts like a prick in TMP & Spock is far, far too distant. Only Bones seems to act like himself.
I don't think it's that far-fetched. By 1987, Star Trek, in his mind, was nothing like Star Trek as it was. His formula didn't match the actual shows, and he bitterly complained that he couldn't say what he really wanted to say in the 60s due to network censors, etc.
He could be an unstable individual, and de-canonizing TOS would have been his style at the time.
Try "unsubstantiated" then.
Kirk, from what I observed, seemed a bit more himself in TWOK. And Spock was definitely back to himself...
^Have to disagree, at least for Kirk. The lethargic, self obsessed Kirk of TWOK bears no resemblance to the dynamic, innovative, far visioned, ass-kicking Kirk of TOS. In no capacity do I see the TOS Kirk screaming into a communicator, or sitting in his chair watching the countdown to the destruction of his ship and crew, or agonizing over the fact that he is 50 years old. Kirk attacks, he outwits, he overcomes. He never brooded and let things come to him, and then let Spock save the day. I don't know who that guy was in the Bennet films, but it surely wasn't James T. Kirk.
That's because he wasn't 50 in TOS.
Sure it was. It was an older James T. Kirk. One that wasn't as sharp as he'd once been, say, like back during the Kobiashi Maru simulation at the academy. One who was afraid he was loosing his edge.
Hmm. maybe that doesn't speak to some of the younger fans. But it's not a bad thing.
HEY - oldER, huh? 50 isn't exactly ancient.
Though 40 sure feels it sometimes.
Agreed, but by the same token, Kirk would not let his "mid life crisis" effect his thought process or performance as a starfleet officer, like it obviously dominated this person's life in this movie and beyond. I remember watching TWOK and the subsequent movies and thinking "who is this wuss?" and then "Nimoy must me Bennet's brother in law".
People,
Well, so much to say. I'll start by saying Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer did help revive ST. They took some chances, like killing off Spock and showing an aging Kirk.
For the record, I find TMP to be one of the dullest TOS movies. The only ones that were more lackluster were TFF and TUC. The others, even TSFS, are spot on.
TWOK -- which is my favorite ST movie, added much to the ST mythos, esp. the Kobayashi Maru scenario, and how Kirk defeated it. And by Kirk's own admission, Khan did catch him "with my britches down." And I like how he's humble enough to credit Saavik by saying, "You keep right on quoting regulations!" By the end of TWOK, he is more like the Kirk of old, taunting then outwitting Khan. I think the line that sums up Kirk best is when he says, "I don't like to lose," and we then see how he fooled Khan and the young Saavik.
Without the TOS movies, the studio wouldn't have green-lit TNG and other shows. To those naysayers who claim modern ST failed, I say they, "Nay!" Times change, and so must ST.
At any rate, there's only some modern ST I can't stand -- ENT, and, to a lesser extent, VOY -- but for the most part I enjoy the other offerings, and even some of what VOY and ENT offered as well.
I guess I'm just more accepting than other, myopic ST fans who whine and complain about how some shows "aren't the real ST," bleh, bleh, bleh.
Red Ranger
Well, so much to say. I'll start by saying Harve Bennett and Nicholas Meyer did help revive ST. They took some chances, like killing off Spock and showing an aging Kirk.
For the record, I find TMP to be one of the dullest TOS movies. The only ones that were more lackluster were TFF and TUC. The others, even TSFS, are spot on.
TWOK -- which is my favorite ST movie, added much to the ST mythos, esp. the Kobayashi Maru scenario, and how Kirk defeated it. And by Kirk's own admission, Khan did catch him "with my britches down." And I like how he's humble enough to credit Saavik by saying, "You keep right on quoting regulations!" By the end of TWOK, he is more like the Kirk of old, taunting then outwitting Khan. I think the line that sums up Kirk best is when he says, "I don't like to lose," and we then see how he fooled Khan and the young Saavik.
Without the TOS movies, the studio wouldn't have green-lit TNG and other shows. To those naysayers who claim modern ST failed, I say they, "Nay!" Times change, and so must ST.
At any rate, there's only some modern ST I can't stand -- ENT, and, to a lesser extent, VOY -- but for the most part I enjoy the other offerings, and even some of what VOY and ENT offered as well.
I guess I'm just more accepting than other, myopic ST fans who whine and complain about how some shows "aren't the real ST," bleh, bleh, bleh.
Red Ranger
That's all well in good, taking chances. Killing Spock. Giving Kirk a son. Making Kirk an Admiral. Blowing up the Enterprise. Kirk facing court-martial.
But, what's the point in taking these chances if everything's going to be reset at the end of the film(s)?
Spock comes back to life.
David gets killed.
Kirk gets the Enterprise-A.
Everybody's back at their posts smiling.
The status quo has returned. WTF? How's that taking chances?
About midlife crises... They can change a person's thought processes. A man's work performance can be affected by it.
Bennett did what Roddenberry failed to do...produce a very good Star Trek film. TWOK is superior to TMP in nearly every way IMO.
Not everybody thinks the same way about aging. Maybe Picard did have a crisis at age 50, but we didn't see it, because it happened before TNG. There's also the difference that at age 50, Picard was captain of the Stargazer. At age 50, Kirk was an admiral at Starfleet Academy, training the next generation (no pun) of people to do what he used to do.
At least Kirk's midlife crisis made sense, compared with the scaffold-climbing, dune buggy-driving Picard we got in the TNG films (a response to Patrick Stewart's midlife crisis rather than any sort of logical growth of the character).
Some people get down about 40. Maybe Picard did.
Hey, I know some people who were down about turning 30!
