The Legacy of Harve Bennett?
- Thread starter TiberiusK
- Start date
I remember rumors back in '89 when TFF came out that Bennet was no help at all with the film, since HE had wanted to direct. No idea if this is true or not.
I'm still at a loss when people say that TMP and/or TWOK weren't "true" Trek. I think those two movies together sum up the series better than any of the others. TMP got the "Cage", "Corbomite Manuever" Trek, TWOK got the "Doomsday Machine", "Balance of Terror" Trek. The rest of them got the "Hey! We're making another Trek movie!" Trek. (Ok, TVH is pretty good. It's the "Piece of the Action" Trek.)
She Who Is My Wife made me sit through all of the movies again (the PAIN! heh). She would NOT watch ST:TMP (my second favorite film) and I could NOT make it through TFF. OTOH, I was surprised at how watchable ST:I and ST:N were. I'm happy for the TFF camp. I keep saying "it CAN'T be as bad as I remembered it!" but then it is.
I would say that love it or hate it, Bennett's films led to TNG and Berman getting tighter control led to TNG getting good. (I'm sure there is someone else to give that credit to, but it sadly is not Roddenberry.)
Oh, and go watch The Ultimate Computer for some world class Kirk brooding!
I'm still at a loss when people say that TMP and/or TWOK weren't "true" Trek. I think those two movies together sum up the series better than any of the others. TMP got the "Cage", "Corbomite Manuever" Trek, TWOK got the "Doomsday Machine", "Balance of Terror" Trek. The rest of them got the "Hey! We're making another Trek movie!" Trek. (Ok, TVH is pretty good. It's the "Piece of the Action" Trek.)
She Who Is My Wife made me sit through all of the movies again (the PAIN! heh). She would NOT watch ST:TMP (my second favorite film) and I could NOT make it through TFF. OTOH, I was surprised at how watchable ST:I and ST:N were. I'm happy for the TFF camp. I keep saying "it CAN'T be as bad as I remembered it!" but then it is.
I would say that love it or hate it, Bennett's films led to TNG and Berman getting tighter control led to TNG getting good. (I'm sure there is someone else to give that credit to, but it sadly is not Roddenberry.)
Oh, and go watch The Ultimate Computer for some world class Kirk brooding!
All I've every heard or seen written about it is a vague quote by GR that they had "cadets running the Enterprise."
Which is interesting, considering one of the many variations on Trek II was that it would be a movie produced by the Paramount's television division, aired as a telemovie in the states, distributed in theaters abroad and feature a younger cast (cadets) that could replace the original cast in a future telemovie or series.
Analogues to the cast had been created and were in the early drafts of the Trek II script. Savvik was the only character to survive to the end, having undergone a sex change and respelling of her name. She was, iirc, a male Vulcan named Savik who was not a science officer but a doctor.
Well, that's because to get young audiences you usually need a young character for them to focus upon, hence Saavik, Peter Preston, Wesley, Alexander, Molly, Jake, Nog and Naomi. Even "young Archer" in ENT's first episode. Kirstie Alley, Merritt Butrick and Wil Wheaton were often on the covers of "16" and "Tiger Beat" magazines.
Never seen that it was a medical degree. I assumed male Dr Savik was an over-achieving young Vulcan scientist, who'd achieved his science doctorate at a very early age. He was undoubtedly based on the work that had already been done to develop Xon in "Phase II".
And Walter Koneig, who despite the Russian newspaper myth, was brought on to get a bigger teen girl demographic.
That's a possibility. For some reason, I just remember him being called a doctor and I assumed the opposite that it was a medical doctor not a scientific/academic doctor.
Apparently, Mr. Koenig was brought on to expand on the popularity of the Monkees...
^Which in turn had a big teenage girl demographic and why he had to wear that awful wig for the early part of season two (so he'd look more like Davey Jones).
Yep. And Walter/Chekov was also often a featured pin-up in the "Tiger Beat" and "16" analogs of the day.
Just got back from doing some work-related research at the Motion Picture Arts Academy library and was poking around at some other stuff when I saw the Joel Engles bio on Roddenberry, The Man Behind The Myth .
In the book, he mentions the Greg Strangis treatment. It is describe as having two things in common with TNG. 1) It took place about 100 years after Kirk and Spock's original adventures. 2) It had a Klingon on board who was a Federation member.
Strangis is cited as saying that his idea would've been about the Federation and Klingons having to come together to fight a common enemy, thus creating a new alliance. According to Engle, Roddenberry is quoted as saying that the ship was run by cadets and that the dialogue contained stuff like "gee whiz."
Strangis is quoted as saying that line of dialogue was never in his treatment nor has he ever used "gee, whiz" in his life.
From what I read, it seemed like Roddenberry was doing some of his bad mouth act (which always made him seem better in comparision). It is similar to the stunts he pulled during Trek II (with Spock's death), Trek III (with the demise of the Enterprise), and with Harve Bennett's "First Adventure" script.
^ "Laddie, try some o' my 'Happy Engineer' formula..."
^Dilithum crystal meth!
It's interesting that the "gee whiz"/cadets on the Enterprise thing comes up; Roddenberry was also quoted as saying that the initial treatments he was shown for what eventually became the animated series contained--guess what?--an Enterprise run by cadets who said things like "gee whiz, Captain Kirk!" Kind of makes you wonder if those original treatments were also better than what Roddenberry described (though in the case of Saturday-morning animation, I doubt it)...
I'll go for the 18th century change (mostly). But please show me how TWOK is any more militaristic than Corbomite Manuever, Court Martial, Doomsday Machine, Ultimate Computer, Errand of Mercy, or Balance of Terror, just to name a few off the top of my head. What made TWOK "military"? Orders? Sir, no sir? Weapons? Hard about? Sounds a lot like Journey to Babel.Warped9 said:
And yet that's exactly what he did. He dumbed down the material, tried to make it look retro 18th century and made it more miltaristic which TOS never was.
It was the whole presentation from the stupid looking outfits to all the heavy-handed jargon. Of course a lot of that was just as much Meyer's fault as Bennet's. And then there was the crap of making STARSHIPS wallow about like lumbering 17th century Spanish galleons lobbing cannonballs at each other.
What jargon was more heavy handed than TOS? People say that, but I've yet to hear an example. TOS always had a naval tradition, and they used it.
Mr. Sulu, stand by to make your maneuvers smartly.
She'll be sluggish on response.
Aye, sir.
Phaser crews, stand by to fire on command.
I still think the TMP uniforms look far more military than TWOK, pajamas notwithstanding. If you stood Chester Nimitz and John Paul Jones next to each other in their resective uniforms and asked which one looked more "military", most folk would say Nimitz. Jones would look like a costume. As did TOS, as did TWOK. So did TMP, but less so that the other two.
You are NEVER going to see ships with modern FX shooting at each other from realistic distances. You're just not. Just as the Klingons in TMP should not have been anywhere near that close to each other. Plus, the plot of TWOK called for two BADLY damaged ships duking it out at sublight close range. Unlike TNG, where they re-wrote the rules that combat never happens at warp.
