THE LAST SHIP Season 2 - discussion, spoilers and general mayhem
- Thread starter Admiral2
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Pretty cool episode, though not much to say beyond that. It was an action thriller, and delivered on the entertainment. We got some new characters who look like they're going to be fun additions to the Nathan James crew. The love interest thing between Lt. Burke and the Israeli woman actually comes off as potentially entertaining, especially if Tex keeps pushing their buttons. And the buddy thing developing between Wolfman and Miller also looks amusing.
So, am I correct that the two English sailors we see surviving on the sub at the beginning are brothers? Would siblings serving in the same military branch actually have the same posting? Or was this crew assembled after the plague broke out and the priority was to get a full crew?
The sub storyline seems like it might be interesting, particularly since the sub is basically the mirror version of the Nathan James. The Nathan James travels the sea with the cure trying to save whoever they meet, while the sub is trying to destroy the cure and kill whoever they meet.
So, am I correct that the two English sailors we see surviving on the sub at the beginning are brothers? Would siblings serving in the same military branch actually have the same posting? Or was this crew assembled after the plague broke out and the priority was to get a full crew?
The sub storyline seems like it might be interesting, particularly since the sub is basically the mirror version of the Nathan James. The Nathan James travels the sea with the cure trying to save whoever they meet, while the sub is trying to destroy the cure and kill whoever they meet.
I don't know about other countries, but in the US it's against regulations service-wide for siblings to serve in the same unit. If that's also the case with the Royal Navy (I'm guessing the sub's a Trafalgar... don't hold me to it) then I'm thinking if they're brothers they took her over after the plague gained momentum.
If anything Seaman Miller was too competent for someone early in his training for advanced battle. H was a raw recruit before Gitmo and now look how coordinated he was with Senior Chief Taylor
He was already rather super competent at least as far back as the premiere, where he's one of the three crew members who start fighting back against the state troopers.
On the other hand, it's refreshing to see characters (even minor ones) actually learn and grow. Too often shows take characters like Miller, who are introduced as the fresh new recruit and leave them raw and inexperienced even after years of doing the same job. Certainly we can all think of two or three Trek characters this applies to. So, in the end I prefer raw newbie to seasoned professional in less than a year than still raw newbie even after four years.
In the first season of NCIS: LA, they had a rookie agent who, despite being an active member of a naval elite ops unit, was so raw he wouldn't be able to get a job as a campus cop. It didn't make sense for him to be there because he wasn't even the audience POV.
Yeah, I wondered that, too. Who were those SEALs reporting to? Just the highest-ranking member of their own? Of course, the show wants Chandler to remain his own boss, making all the mission calls himself, so that whole matter was conveniently omitted...
Convenient, true, but given what we've been told about the plague - the ridiculously high mortality rate and the speed of incubation - it's not a convenience that's beyond the realm of possibility. All the bird colonels, captains and higher could have been dusted before quarantine procedures and safeguards could be fully implemented, or they might have evacuated to shelters elsewhere and lost contact, and the people you saw gathered at Norfolk were stragglers who survived the disease hitting other bases.
We might never know, because one thing all of us are keenly aware of is that even the writers of the best shows like to keep us guessing on stuff. So we just have to go with what we've been shown. From that, all I can say is if there were someone that outranked Chandler there, the first thing the SEALS would have done was conduct him to that officer. They didn't. They reported to him and followed his orders, and so did the pilots he sent off to other labs. If he didn't outrank all of them, then they must have all been hella desperate for somebody to get the place organized and doing something meaningful, so much so that his superiors were willing to stand aside and let him lead.
That would be pure Hollywood, true but we're watching Star Trek on the ocean so...
Anyway, as a matter of simple expediency The SEALs and everyone else would have reported to whoever was the highest ranking officer on the base at the time before Chandler arrived. Of course we don't know who that was, but I would guess one of the pilots.
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It's not against regulations, it was a WWII policy after the Sullivan brothers fell in combat the policy keeps getting tweaked over the years. First late in WWII as recruitment is easier if you can make promises of siblings serving together and the chance of a US Navy vessel suffering a catastrophic loss gets reevaluated.
The USS George Washington recently sent this brother and sister's story to their hometown newspaper
I stand corrected, but that still doesn't tell us about the brothers in the evil sub.
Convenient, true, but given what we've been told about the plague - the ridiculously high mortality rate and the speed of incubation - it's not a convenience that's beyond the realm of possibility. All the bird colonels, captains and higher could have been dusted before quarantine procedures and safeguards could be fully implemented, or they might have evacuated to shelters elsewhere and lost contact, and the people you saw gathered at Norfolk were stragglers who survived the disease hitting other bases.
We might never know, because one thing all of us are keenly aware of is that even the writers of the best shows like to keep us guessing on stuff. So we just have to go with what we've been shown. From that, all I can say is if there were someone that outranked Chandler there, the first thing the SEALS would have done was conduct him to that officer. They didn't. They reported to him and followed his orders, and so did the pilots he sent off to other labs. If he didn't outrank all of them, then they must have all been hella desperate for somebody to get the place organized and doing something meaningful, so much so that his superiors were willing to stand aside and let him lead.
That would be pure Hollywood, true but we're watching Star Trek on the ocean so...
Anyway, as a matter of simple expediency The SEALs and everyone else would have reported to whoever was the highest ranking officer on the base at the time before Chandler arrived. Of course we don't know who that was, but I would guess one of the pilots.
Although, if Chandler were indeed the highest ranking military officer left in the US (or at least Norfolk) then wouldn't his actual responsibility be to stay and take command in Norfolk to supervise rebuilding efforts, turning command of the Nathan James over to Slattery? Which kind of negates the drama of last week's episode, he could have stayed home and not resigned. Though I guess, Norfolk was getting by okay without him, and he likely feels his place is at sea anyway.
And at this point, I kind of hope they don't bring in an officer who does outrank Chandler, since it'll likely be a retread of BSG with Admiral Cain or the Evil Captain/Admiral Trope from Star Trek. Or maybe someone who was once the model officer but is now an unhinged mess, like Commodore Decker from The Doomsday Machine.
^ I thought of that also, and you may be technically right, but, given Chandler's expertise with commanding a vessel at sea, he and the local officer commanding the SEALs might decide to let the status quo be. Either way, it would've been an interesting scene to play out, more so than the LT finding her mother (not that that was bad).
When was the last time you heard/saw/read that the captain of a vessel is leading a boarding action himself?
It's a TV show and the captain is one of the main characters.. people would be complaining that it's a dull show when the top leader is only sitting around on the ship issuing commands when everybody else is running around kicking ass.
As well done the show is in certain parts they still have to pay respect to TV reality and include him in action scenes wether it is realistic or not (and it definitely is not realistic).
As to his actual rank, i guess running the base would have to take precedence over running a ship. I don't know if there is an established procedure in the US armed forces, i.e. what takes precedence in the event of a catastrophic breakdown in the chain of command but i guess Norfolk itself is slightly more important than a single ship and Slattery is experienced and capable enough to run the ship.
In fact, given that they have shown multiple ships anchored in Norfolk it may also be time to get another one up and running and give it to Slattery at some point so they can also start to reestablish the Navy as a force (there's surely enough enlisted people around to crew it).
However given the state of the events distributing the cure is more important than rebuilding the Navy but a year or two this may become important. I'm curious of they will touch that subject sometime.
It's a TV show and the captain is one of the main characters.. people would be complaining that it's a dull show when the top leader is only sitting around on the ship issuing commands when everybody else is running around kicking ass.
As well done the show is in certain parts they still have to pay respect to TV reality and include him in action scenes wether it is realistic or not (and it definitely is not realistic).
As to his actual rank, i guess running the base would have to take precedence over running a ship. I don't know if there is an established procedure in the US armed forces, i.e. what takes precedence in the event of a catastrophic breakdown in the chain of command but i guess Norfolk itself is slightly more important than a single ship and Slattery is experienced and capable enough to run the ship.
In fact, given that they have shown multiple ships anchored in Norfolk it may also be time to get another one up and running and give it to Slattery at some point so they can also start to reestablish the Navy as a force (there's surely enough enlisted people around to crew it).
However given the state of the events distributing the cure is more important than rebuilding the Navy but a year or two this may become important. I'm curious of they will touch that subject sometime.
That's the impression I get also. One of the few shows I've seen where the actors look like they know how to handle weapons and CQB tactics.
Yeah, they definitely get support from the Navy, pretty much a given since the exterior shots and when we see the characters walking the deck of the Nathan James are filmed with actual Navy ships plus the actors have met with actual US Navy personnel who do the same jobs as the characters they play for insight with the roles. EG, Eric Dane has met with an actual captain, Adam Baldwin with an actual XO, Charles Parnell with an actual Command Master Chief and so on. I'm sure they have an advisor on set to supervise that other details get done right as well.
^why would he stay behind, what makes Norfolk special at this point? Maybe they just decided that the ship was going to be the new roving command center? I mean, with everything gone, no real reason to prefer one base over another. Why not go sit in the ruins of the Pentagon? The ship is just as good...
The ammunition and fuel bunkers? But generally, not just on TV/movies the Admiral or Captain since there is one ship, would be at sea in command and his deputy sitting on the logistics train. With the civilian Commander in Chief sitting at the government base.
This. His ultimate responsibility is to complete the mission he's already on, not to take command of a base that, as The Wormhole mentioned, was already functioning without him. He needed the pilots and planes to continue his mission, and he needed replacements for his crew. He did not need to stay and play administrator and leave his bigger responsibility on the shoulders of his XO.
Star Wolf is right that Norfolk is vitally important as a point of re-arming and resupply, but Chandler doesn't need to take over permanently to guarantee its function and security. It's obviously in good hands and being protected by Navy SEALs. I think it will be fine when Chandler and Nathan James head for open water again.
(Just adding my voice to the confab...)
He's not going to personally guard the bunker, so so what? And doesn't appear to be the situation where he needs to hide in that bunker, either. Don't think there's enough Navy left for anyone to be impressed with him sitting behind a desk, either.
Left competent people in charge of guarding and distributing the cure locally, and went back off where he could do the most good. He's not irreplaceable, but his ship could certainly use him, and there's an established thing that's working there.
If you want to criticize any decision from that episode, it probably should have been that they showed other ships in port in Norfolk. The smart course of action there probably would have been to get one of those armed and into the game, with the XO in command. Split the crew a little, and draw from the forces they had on the ground. And collect a few more as you go to see if you can get it better crewed.
They'd have a lot more options with another ship for cover and firepower. Yes, also means more fuel needs and splitting supplies, but if the support ship is a little more minimal and still uses Nathan James as the supply location, it should have worked. A little harder on the crew, but if she was fully crewed beforehand, they could probably do two ships if they cut things down, especially if they pick a smaller ship in good condition.
Google Maps shows a ton of options in port, presumably at least a couple were still there and unable to get away when things struck. There were at least 1-2 at the one dock shown in the show, so they had options. Not telling them to try and wing it with a sub or a carrier (both also present), but another DDG or a slightly older/smaller frigate would make a nice companion. Ruins the name of the show, but hey...
Didn't work out with VOY and Equinox, but only because the other crew was 'bad'. If they just came upon that ship empty, and ALSO had an ability to find extra crew as Nathan James has been doing, it would have made a nice escort/frigate combo to add to their little fleet. Dual missions, tactical advantage, all that good stuff.
Edit: yeah, concur with Admiral2 above, got in while I was typing.
Left competent people in charge of guarding and distributing the cure locally, and went back off where he could do the most good. He's not irreplaceable, but his ship could certainly use him, and there's an established thing that's working there.
If you want to criticize any decision from that episode, it probably should have been that they showed other ships in port in Norfolk. The smart course of action there probably would have been to get one of those armed and into the game, with the XO in command. Split the crew a little, and draw from the forces they had on the ground. And collect a few more as you go to see if you can get it better crewed.
They'd have a lot more options with another ship for cover and firepower. Yes, also means more fuel needs and splitting supplies, but if the support ship is a little more minimal and still uses Nathan James as the supply location, it should have worked. A little harder on the crew, but if she was fully crewed beforehand, they could probably do two ships if they cut things down, especially if they pick a smaller ship in good condition.
Google Maps shows a ton of options in port, presumably at least a couple were still there and unable to get away when things struck. There were at least 1-2 at the one dock shown in the show, so they had options. Not telling them to try and wing it with a sub or a carrier (both also present), but another DDG or a slightly older/smaller frigate would make a nice companion. Ruins the name of the show, but hey...
Didn't work out with VOY and Equinox, but only because the other crew was 'bad'. If they just came upon that ship empty, and ALSO had an ability to find extra crew as Nathan James has been doing, it would have made a nice escort/frigate combo to add to their little fleet. Dual missions, tactical advantage, all that good stuff.
Edit: yeah, concur with Admiral2 above, got in while I was typing.