Spoilers The Last of Us Season 2 - Spoilers

[Nerys Myk]

The writing has not been as good as season one.

In what way?

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Bella Ramsey is non-binary and uses they/them pronouns.

That's true, but Ramsey has also said on numerous occasions that they have no objection to people using other pronouns for them, whether masculine or feminine.

 

[Disco]

In what way?

Sorry I want to vent my disappointment, not debate.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Sorry I want to vent my disappointment, not debate.

It’s a discussion board, so people will be curious. Blanket drive byes are kind of boring.

 

[JD]

It is marred by what seems an elaborate but rushed production and many people didn't like how certain characters behaved even though most of it was telegraphed if you watched the show closely and maybe with hindsight in mind.

One of Game of Thrones qualities was that it seemingly lacked plot armor for fan favorite characters, i.e. Ned Stark, Robb Stark or even Khal Drogo ( people you have seen die on the show if you have seen it up to the Red Wedding) and it turns out it was not their story but they were supporting characters to hammer home a point, i.e. death can come quickly if you make mistakes.

This is why i like to reference GoT in regards to Last of Us because it does the same, it uses Joel's death to drive the story and character development of others. Some people may not like it when they are fans of the character and/or actor/actress, they want to settle into a show weekly and see more of the same what made them fans in the first place and when that show makes such a huge change it can become too jarring for some and they leave the show.

We'll see if that happens to Last of Us but i believe Ramsey and the others can carry the show without Pascal, especially if the writing remains good.

I think that's the difference for me, I watch most of these kind of shows for the overall story, not just because I'm attached to only one character. Usually if I only like one character, to the point that I'd stop watching the moment that character was off the show, I probably wouldn't bother watching the show at all. It takes a lot more than one character for me to be willing to give a show my time.

That's true, but Ramsey has also said on numerous occasions that they have no objection to people using other pronouns for them, whether masculine or feminine.

OK, good to know.

 

[StarMan]

Without spoiling anything, it will be even more obvious in S3 why - in order to tell the story they wanted - Joel had to die (and early on in the piece).

@Jayson1 suggested they should have ignored the 2nd game. So, what - do a faithful adaption of the first game, but tell an entirely different story to the second game?

It'd be like saying they should have kept Ned Stark alive in the show because his death would upset a lot of viewers. Okay, but tell me - how would the rest of the show play out if Ned kept his head? You can't tell the same story anymore and would have to construct a different story altogether. Not much of an adaption at that point.

I think that's the difference for me, I watch most of these kind of shows for the overall story, not just because I'm attached to only one character.

Yeah. I notice some people become very invested in a particular side, or character. I'm here for the overall story. If a character I really like bites the dust, but it packs an emotional impact and serves the narrative, it works for me.

 

[Jayson1]

Didn't they ignore aspects of the first game also? I do know episode 3 about Bill and his partner wasn't in the game and that change just resulted in what I still think is the shows best episode.

 

[StarMan]

Didn't they ignore aspects of the first game also? I do know episode 3 about Bill and his partner wasn't in the game and that change just resulted in what I still think is the shows best episode.

Yep - happens all the time in adaptions. Peter Jackson omitted Tom Bombadil in Fellowship of the Ring, for example. That encounter was an isolated event that could be removed without impacting the primary beats of the overarching story. Be a hell of a headache if he decided - say - not to kill off Gandalf.

In the game, Bill serves as a cautionary tale for Joel. The show essentially flipped the idea yet preserved the progression in Joel and Ellie's relationship. It was a self-contained story that had no impact on the larger narrative.

If you undo Joel's death, the whole story winks out of existence. It'll be even more apparent once season 3 rolls around.

 

[Set Harth]

Didn't they ignore aspects of the first game also? I do know episode 3 about Bill and his partner wasn't in the game and that change just resulted in what I still think is the shows best episode.

For some reason I thought it was the longest episode, but the internet says otherwise.

 

[Jayson1]

Yep - happens all the time in adaptions. Peter Jackson omitted Tom Bombadil in Fellowship of the Ring, for example. That encounter was an isolated event that could be removed without impacting the primary beats of the overarching story. Be a hell of a headache if he decided - say - not to kill off Gandalf.

In the game, Bill serves as a cautionary tale for Joel. The show essentially flipped the idea yet preserved the progression in Joel and Ellie's relationship. It was a self-contained story that had no impact on the larger narrative.

If you undo Joel's death, the whole story winks out of existence. It'll be even more apparent once season 3 rolls around.

I'm not exactly saying you can't kill Joel. Just develop the relationship and the town more and then kill him in the season final. But also you still need even then a strong adult presence in the mix, which means giving Tommy more to do, when Joel is gone.

 

[JD]

But doing all of that would be completely pointless because the story they're telling is not about the town or Tommy, and stretching it out longer just because some people can't handle the fact that Joel dies would just be a waste of time.

 

[Jayson1]

Maybe it should be more about the town and Tommy though. You got lots of terrific actors and a good setting. A compelling lead already established. I see plenty of reason to go with more of that.

 

[JD]

But that's not The Last of Us then.

 

[Jayson1]

Tv and movies often make big changes in adaptation from books and it's original source material. That isn't necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Disco]

Joel's death would have mattered/had an impact of they hadn't changed his character. All it did was make Ellie want revenge. A tired and poorly executed trope.

 

[Jayson1]

Joel's death would have mattered/had an impact of they hadn't changed his character. All it did was make Ellie want revenge. A tired and poorly executed trope.

Revenge is used a lot but heck these days every kind of story has been told a million times. What I like about my idea is if your going to have her loose her humanity you need her to really have something to loose. More than just the lost of Joel's life but also the destruction of her love for Dina as well. Then season 3 instead of focusing on Abby because who really cares to much about Abby. She is basically just a plot to device to explore Ellie's feelings about Joel and Dina. Or should be. Season 3 should be about her realizing that even though she learns her lesson and doesn't kill Abby, things don't just go back to normal. Joel is still dead. You have broken Dina's heart. And the zombies and spores are still making society more and more worst.

 

[Disco]

That makes sense than the current story but I'd personally rather move away from Ellie.

 

[FPAlpha]

Revenge is used a lot but heck these days every kind of story has been told a million times. What I like about my idea is if your going to have her loose her humanity you need her to really have something to loose. More than just the lost of Joel's life but also the destruction of her love for Dina as well. Then season 3 instead of focusing on Abby because who really cares to much about Abby. She is basically just a plot to device to explore Ellie's feelings about Joel and Dina. Or should be. Season 3 should be about her realizing that even though she learns her lesson and doesn't kill Abby, things don't just go back to normal. Joel is still dead. You have broken Dina's heart. And the zombies and spores are still making society more and more worst.

Every type of story has been told a million times over by now through the history of humanity, omly the details vary and determine how well that particular theme is told and how it resonates with the audience.

It's obvious that you don't like the current direction the show is taking in telling that particular story/theme and that's fine. Others like me enjoy it the way it is.

 

[Jayson1]

Every type of story has been told a million times over by now through the history of humanity, omly the details vary and determine how well that particular theme is told and how it resonates with the audience.

It's obvious that you don't like the current direction the show is taking in telling that particular story/theme and that's fine. Others like me enjoy it the way it is.

I am glad you like it. I will never knock someone for liking something just because I don't.

 

[StarMan]

If you haven't played the game, it's safe to say that whatever direction you think this is going, it's not. This is why I have reiterated that - at least considering how S2 has tracked with the game - S3 will make certain creative / narrative decisions clearer.

Anyhoo, looking forward to the finale tonight. Should be ... fun.