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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
Something different is not the solution.. not for the sake for being different. If you have two figure skaters, one whose routine is pretty standard and uninspired, and the second one has something interesting planned. The first girl only falls once and otherwise runs a good program and the second girl with the different program stumbles and falls on almost every move she tries to execute and is crying when she leaves the ice.

The first skater is TFA. the second is TLJ.

SW is built around the first skater.. it's a simple story with archetype characters.. they can be developed and made more complex but there is a cap on that, and such development should be peppered in not dumped
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None of the things you've said in this post are true. The Last Jedi is far more rooted in the things that make the Star Wars franchise unique than TFA is because Rian Johnson understands the underlying subtleties and narrative themes of the franchise to a much greater degree than both JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan do.
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
SW is built around the first skater.. it's a simple story with archetype characters.. they can be developed and made more complex but there is a cap on that, and such development should be peppered in not dumped
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I'd say there's a definite shelf life for something like Star Wars with that kind of worldview. Even people who agree with it will begin to drift away when the characters become stagnant because of oversimplification. For me, just more of the simplified storytelling of the original trilogy wouldn't have sated my appetite. I grew up, lots of fans did.

It is a difficult line to walk. The Kobayashi Maru. No matter the choices, you're going to piss someone off.
 
DigificWriter said:
None of the things you've said in this post are true. The Last Jedi is far more rooted in the things that make the Star Wars franchise unique than TFA is because Rian Johnson understands the underlying subtleties and narrative themes of the franchise to a much greater degree than both JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan do.
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Kasdan literally "started this gangster shit"!
 
DigificWriter said:
The Last Jedi is far more rooted in the things that make the Star Wars franchise unique than TFA is because Rian Johnson understands the underlying subtleties and narrative themes of the franchise to a much greater degree than both JJ Abrams and Lawrence Kasdan do.
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The only thing authentic about TLJ (besides production design and scoring of course) was Luke's very brief speech on The Force (despite the oddness of the National Geographic timelapse photography of seedlings sprouting). The rest was him breaking the 4th wall, stepping out of the screen, and proceeding to take a big dump on SW fans. The mirror cave sequence was alright, I guess, although only if its meaning is explained in Episode IX.
 
mos6507 said:
The only thing authentic about TLJ (besides production design and scoring of course) was Luke's very brief speech on The Force (despite the oddness of the National Geographic timelapse photography of seedlings sprouting). The rest was him breaking the 4th wall, stepping out of the screen, and proceeding to take a big dump on SW fans. The mirror cave sequence was alright, I guess, although only if its meaning is explained in Episode IX.
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I don't think this post has any validity based on TLJ's contents, but you're entitled to your own opinion.
 
mos6507 said:
and proceeding to take a big dump on SW fans.
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Sorry, but no one person can speak for all fans.

However:
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mos6507 said:
The only thing authentic about TLJ (besides production design and scoring of course) was Luke's very brief speech on The Force (despite the oddness of the National Geographic timelapse photography of seedlings sprouting). The rest was him breaking the 4th wall, stepping out of the screen, and proceeding to take a big dump on SW fans. The mirror cave sequence was alright, I guess, although only if its meaning is explained in Episode IX.
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My earliest memory is watching The Empire Strikes Back, I have been a Star Wars fan for longer than I can now remember, I got my name with a character in the old EU, as a child I latched onto whatever Star Wars related media I could find (which was tough in the late 80s), I even adored the Ewok Adventures. By any metric, I’m a Star Wars fan and always have been.

You claiming that TLJ took a “dump” of fans does not represent me or anyone I know. I enjoyed the movie and consider it to be one of the better films. I don’t believe you’re a fan of anything because all I see from you is hatred and complaints. Move on with your life, dwelling constantly on shows and movies you clearly hate isn’t healthy.
 
TLJ has subtleties??? WHATTTTT.. all that moral grandstanding is subtle.. we have to save the animals and the slave children??? we have to realize the rich are helping both sides..? that is not SW
 
also i made a mistake with my post. i meant TFA was the first skater.. and TLJ was the second skater.. it's all in execution.. and tLJ was poorly handled.. it's a tonal mess and badly edited.

ohg and WHY is seeing Luke this way something that is entertaining?
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
ohg and WHY is seeing Luke this way something that is entertaining?
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Because it engages me on a deeply psychological level. Luke's journey is one that I identify with, am fascinated by and want to explore more of. It is classically archetypal while being uniquely personal to me.

It's not just entertaining, though TLJ does that quite well for me.I care about the characters and am engaged with them throughout the journey.

I am truly sorry that it isn't that way for everyone.
 
The Last Jedi is both quintessentially Star Wars while also extremely subversive and deconstructive of the story tropes that George Lucas built the franchise on and around, which is why it works as effectively as it does.

It also leans much more heavily into the concept of taking the story to its absolute lowest point than either of its thematic brethren (AotC and TESB) by exploring the
psychological price of failure .
 
yes failure:
Failure to build tension and momentum in the script
failure to keep a consistent tone
failure to stay away from over convoluted side plots
failure to avoid having said side plots actually amount to nothing and not matter
failure to prevent developed characters like Ren turn into shallower characters by the end of the film
failure to properly edit and pace a film, or to have any memorable lines or visceral action scenes.
 
Actually I LOVE the film. I mean what's not to love? I love the scene where BB-8 shoots coins at a guard dressed like he is from a B movie.. one of the most memorable scenes from STar Wars. Or how about that awesome awesome shot when the animals are breaking through the windows and we focus in on a screaming alien lady in center frame.. OMG THAT is a SW moment. I mean I'd rather watch scenes like this rather than the lame dog fighting scenes that the original trilogy had. I mean who wants to see the Falcon dodge its way through asteroids, or weave through metal tunnels as it approached the main reactor? that's all ame. I'm telling you, watching the resistance fighting the first order on the salt planet was amazing.. especially since despite being outnumbered the only one who does any damage to anyone is Rey who somehow came out of nowhere. THAT is good filmmaking. Good filmmaking is not about getting your audience excited, or assembling scenes well or building tension.. it's about putting frivolous moments in and hoping that the not too much air is taken out of the script Rian is brilliant.. he truly is .. i truly see the light. I get it now
 
Professor Zoom said:
Meh. You'll still see Rise of Skywalker.
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My godbrother wants to see it for his birthday around that time, so I'll probably have to go with him due to family loyalty. Otherwise, I'd be fine with waiting for a $2 Redbox blu-ray rental, or maybe seeing it for free as part of a trial Disney+ subscription for The Mandalorian. All the local AMC theaters are now reserved seating only, so taking advantage of their $6 Tuesdays by showing up super-early and snagging the best seats is a lot tougher. (Reserved seating also makes lodging a protest vote against Disney by buying a ticket for an indie movie but attending Star Wars a less feasible... cough, notthatIwouldeverdosuchathing.) But, I skipped the theatrical runs of Into Blahness (and wish I'd skipped Beyond altogether), GotG Vol. 2, and Dark Phoenix, despite being rather more invested in those franchises than the ST.

And, if Johnson thinks I'm going to bother with his Knives Out... well, I might rent it someday based on reviews, but I'm certainly not buying a $15 theater ticket. :p
 
Flying Spaghetti Monster said:
yes failure:
Failure to build tension and momentum in the script
failure to keep a consistent tone
failure to stay away from over convoluted side plots
failure to avoid having said side plots actually amount to nothing and not matter
failure to prevent developed characters like Ren turn into shallower characters by the end of the film
failure to properly edit and pace a film, or to have any memorable lines or visceral action scenes.
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And you've completely missed the point.

Go wallow in your misplaced judgment of this film and I and the countless others who appreciate it will continue to celebrate what it brings to the story and what it was trying to do from a thematic and narrative perspective.
 
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