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The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

I know a lot of Star Wars fans that were really disappointed with The Last Jedi. Now me, I'm just a casual Star Wars fans, really just the movies for me. I only saw The Last Jedi for the first time a few months ago. Now, I agree with many of the criticisms of it. The whole bizarre Princess Leia corpse scene in space. I was staring at that scene like OMG. You've got to be kidding me. I know Star Wars is space fantasy....but that was just beyond fantasy and utterly ridiculous.

And the whole lets get a computer expert (Benicio Del Toro) and we find an imposter scene....but it didn't matter anyway. What was the point of that. Just to get Ren on the ship?

And you know what. When Ren was holding his hand out to Rey to join him I actually thought she was going to take it. DO SOMETHING UNEXPECTED! I thought she was going to do it. I mean, let's face it, they tried the galactic republic twice, and the Empire idea twice (if you include the current attempt to bring back the Empire). Maybe Ren is right. Maybe it's time to try something different. They really missed an opportunity to take the movies in a totally unexpected and new direction there. If she had joined with him (maybe she could have influenced him to join with her instead of her becoming dark) we'd really have no idea what to expect in the next film. It would have opened things up.

Instead I can almost see it now. Ren and Rey will get in one final battle, she will finally make him see the light just before he dies. ROTJ redux. I mean, let's face it. That's were we're headed. They really missed an opportunity to upend everyone's expectations.

How cool/crazy would it have been if she paused at that scene, thought, you know what, we've tried it this way for how long now and it ain't working. Yeah, let's do something crazy and join forces.
 
Damian said:
They really missed an opportunity to take the movies in a totally unexpected and new direction there. If she had joined with him (maybe she could have influenced him to join with her instead of her becoming dark)
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He'd directly participated in the murder of five planets' worth of people, not to mention the murder of his own father - as Rey said, he was already a monster. And that's really the core flaw of Rian Johnson's approach: one can make an expectation-subverting, totally new Star Wars movie, that brings a whole new perspective to its universe, but to do so as a direct sequel to a remakeboot of ANH, particularly in the Saga's ostensible penultimate film, is misguided and pointless, because A) the characters and story simply aren't built for nuance, and B) the grand finale of Ep. IX will inevitably cast said nuance aside. (Oh hai, Palps!)

Sure, it would have been interesting if Rey had joined Kylo. But, given all she knew about him already, willingly associating with him, instead of doing everything in her power to arrest and confine him for galactic war crimes, would have instantly made a villain and criminal out of her, too. So that would have left... Luke, Leia, and Finn to confront the Dark Side Duo in Ep. IX? Riiiiiiiigggghttt. :rommie:
 
Gaith said:
He'd directly participated in the murder of five planets' worth of people, not to mention the murder of his own father - as Rey said, he was already a monster. And that's really the core flaw of Rian Johnson's approach: one can make an expectation-subverting, totally new Star Wars movie, that brings a whole new perspective to its universe, but to do so as a direct sequel to a remakeboot of ANH, particularly in the Saga's ostensible penultimate film, is misguided and pointless, because A) the characters and story simply aren't built for nuance, and B) the grand finale of Ep. IX will inevitably cast said nuance aside. (Oh hai, Palps!)

Sure, it would have been interesting if Rey had joined Kylo. But, given all she knew about him already, willingly associating with him, instead of doing everything in her power to arrest and confine him for galactic war crimes, would have instantly made a villain and criminal out of her, too. So that would have left... Luke, Leia, and Finn to confront the Dark Side Duo in Ep. IX? Riiiiiiiigggghttt. :rommie:
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I just wish they did SOMETHING unexpected. The next movie is almost as predictable as a Hallmark movie. Kylo will see the err of his ways and ask Rey for forgiveness just before he dies, probably in her arms.
 
Damian said:
I just wish they did SOMETHING unexpected. The next movie is almost as predictable as a Hallmark movie. Kylo will see the err of his ways and ask Rey for forgiveness just before he dies, probably in her arms.
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I'd rather see Kylo Ren win. With the down note of the battle being ongoing, like it has for thousands of years.
 
Damian said:
I just wish they did SOMETHING unexpected. The next movie is almost as predictable as a Hallmark movie. Kylo will see the err of his ways and ask Rey for forgiveness just before he dies, probably in her arms.
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I love how people are complaining about the movie being predictable when the majority of people are yelling at how disrespectful the movie was for subverting their expectations. Goes to show that it's best not to listen to fans at all, because they have no idea what they want.
 
crookeddy said:
I love how people are complaining about the movie being predictable when the majority of people are yelling at how disrespectful the movie was for subverting their expectations.
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Good movies should meet expectations but in unpredictable ways.;)

Goes to show that it's best not to listen to fans at all, because they have no idea what they want.
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However true that may be your statement is a circular argument.
 
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An example of a movie that listened to the fans is AOTC. It solved a lot of issues from TPM that fans complained about, but in the process created whole new issues...
 
crookeddy said:
An example of a movie that listened to the fans is AOTC. It solved a lot of issues from TPM that fans complained about, but in the process created whole new issues...
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I have heard other fans echo that opinion. But if George ditched the micro-clorians or whatever they were called and Jar Jar because of fan criticism then I'd call that a positive outcome of fan feedback.
 
Armus said:
I have heard other fans echo that opinion. But if George ditched the micro-clorians or whatever they were called and Jar Jar because of fan criticism then I'd call that a positive outcome of fan feedback.
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Yeah, that's a positive. The negative is that he replaced them with awful dialogue, unbelievable romance, and extreme fan service in the form of Yoda's fight.
 
Armus said:
I have heard other fans echo that opinion. But if George ditched the micro-clorians or whatever they were called and Jar Jar because of fan criticism then I'd call that a positive outcome of fan feedback.
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And gave fans a false sense of power.
 
Armus said:
Good movies should meet expectations but in unpredictable ways.;)
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Well said. Take Thor: Ragnarok: fans came into the movie wanting to see their hero dealing with Loki having secretly usurped the throne, and to see a new development of the brothers' interaction - and that's exactly what they got. What they couldn't have predicted, however (assuming they hadn't seen the previews or followed the movie's production), was that they'd also get a buddy comedy with a childish Hulk, a revisionist take on Asgardian imperialism, and that Thor would end up deliberately summoning the demon that would cause his homeworld's destruction. True, some fans chafed at the predominantly comedic tone, but most audiences responded very positively.

Going into TLJ, audiences could have easily expected repeated beats from ESB, such as Luke being initially unwilling to train Rey (like Yoda) before sacrificing himself in a peaceful manner (like Obi-Wan), Kylo Ren not being redeemed, and a side mission for Finn. Most probably wouldn't have predicted, however, incongruous humor, a naive and unnecessary side character in Rose, fan-favorite Poe being scolded for most of the flick by an unfamiliar character, Leia mostly just sitting around being abandoned by her allies, occasionally comatose, and largely ignored, and RJ following ESB's major beats so closely that the New Republic is effectively written out in the opening crawl, despite the First Order just suffering the loss of its Death Star, which they presumably put a lot of their resources into.
 
Gaith said:
Well said. Take Thor: Ragnarok: fans came into the movie wanting to see their hero dealing with Loki having secretly usurped the throne, and to see a new development of the brothers' interaction - and that's exactly what they got. What they couldn't have predicted, however (assuming they hadn't seen the previews or followed the movie's production), was that they'd also get a buddy comedy with a childish Hulk, a revisionist take on Asgardian imperialism, and that Thor would end up deliberately summoning the demon that would cause his homeworld's destruction. True, some fans chafed at the predominantly comedic tone, but most audiences responded very positively.

Going into TLJ, audiences could have easily expected repeated beats from ESB, such as Luke being initially unwilling to train Rey (like Yoda) before sacrificing himself in a peaceful manner (like Obi-Wan), Kylo Ren not being redeemed, and a side mission for Finn. Most probably wouldn't have predicted, however, incongruous humor, a naive and unnecessary side character in Rose, fan-favorite Poe being scolded for most of the flick by an unfamiliar character, Leia mostly just sitting around being abandoned by her allies, occasionally comatose, and largely ignored, and RJ following ESB's major beats so closely that the New Republic is effectively written out in the opening crawl, despite the First Order just suffering the loss of its Death Star, which they presumably put a lot of their resources into.
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Meh. You'll still see Rise of Skywalker.
 
Something different is not the solution.. not for the sake for being different. If you have two figure skaters, one whose routine is pretty standard and uninspired, and the second one has something interesting planned. The first girl only falls once and otherwise runs a good program and the second girl with the different program stumbles and falls on almost every move she tries to execute and is crying when she leaves the ice.

The first skater is TFA. the second is TLJ.

SW is built around the first skater.. it's a simple story with archetype characters.. they can be developed and made more complex but there is a cap on that, and such development should be peppered in not dumped
 
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