The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?
- Thread starter crookeddy
- Start date
And each step becomes difficult as part of the journey. Classic storytelling.
Like how in the Emperors throne room, he comes within a hairs breadth of falling to the dark side, Vader’s taunts finally get under his skin and he gives in to his anger. When he realises what he’s done, how he’s not so different from his father, he’s horrified. He throws his saber down, and refuses to play Palestine’s game. The lesson is that you always have a choice, even if there’s a gun to your head.
Seems like Rian Johnson decided that was Luke’s defining moment, and that forgetting that lesson for just a split second led to his downfall.
Seems like Rian Johnson decided that was Luke’s defining moment, and that forgetting that lesson for just a split second led to his downfall.
Enlightening you isn't my job. But, if you honestly want your opinions challenged, I highly recommend Red Letter Media's two reviews, as well as this one - I'll defend almost every point all three of those critiques make:
(And, in case you're wondering, I think TFA is hot garbage, too.)
Also a weak, lazy cop-out. Do you have any original thoughts, or are all your opinions borrowed from internet comedians?
I'm not going to waste time watching the videos and making your argument for you.
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Quicker...easier...more seductive. The danger of the Dark Side is that it is ever-present, requires diligence. One of the key themes in Star Wars, again starting with ANH, is that evil is defeated for a time. Darth Vader is knocked of course and flies away to fight again. Maul is defeated but Sidious remains. Sidious is defeated but contingencies are in place. Snoke waits in the shadows to seize power. After all, that's what the Dark Side feeds on. Power.
In the awful moments where darkness is the deepest, there is the temptation to draw upon the same power from fear.
That what Luke's brief moment of weakness, and it impacted him deeply, a reminder of past failures that he could not live with.
As with many other mythological stories, the younger hero steps up to remind an older mentor of their true power, and to inherit the mantle of power. It doesn't get more classic in terms of storytelling than that.
Then why respond?
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Then I must conclude that you have none.
You really think that you have to be intelligent to follow the Transformers movie along?
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You really think that you have to be intelligent to follow Transformers movie along?
I'm running low on caffeine, please pretend I made an incredibly witty and hilarious post about Michael Bay being an unappreciated genius or something
You really think that you have to be intelligent to follow Transformers movie along?
I didn't ask you to convince me of TLJ's strengths; you asked me to convince you of its weaknesses. When I pointed you to some quality material, you whined about my not having taken the time to make the points myself, and now you insult me for calling you on your entitlement. Cute.
If you can't be arsed to watch and respond to a single point from three YouTube videos, I don't see why I should accede to your request to personally and without referencing readily available third-party material convince you of TLJ's flaws. If you had an honest interest in expanding your views on the matter, you'd at least sample them. Instead, you seem to first and foremost be looking for a fight. Good luck with that.
It's hard to take it seriously with the argument being essentially "Google it." That doesn't inspire any sort of confidence that the arguments carry weight, as they did not leave enough of an impression to even be summarized in a post.I didn't ask you to convince me of TLJ's strengths; you asked me to convince you of its weaknesses. When I pointed you to some quality material, you whined about my not having taken the time to make the points myself, and now you insult me for calling you on your entitlement. Cute.
If you can't be arsed to watch and respond to a single point from three YouTube videos, I don't see why I should accede to your request to personally and without referencing readily available third-party material convince you of TLJ's flaws. If you had an honest interest in expanding your views on the matter, you'd at least sample them. Instead, you seem to first and foremost be looking for a fight. Good luck with that.
So, with respect, I cannot take it seriously either. Expecting people to watch a video without any idea of what they are watching, time commitment, or whatnot, is just as unreasonable.
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I'm not trying to convince you of anything except maybe to state some of the things I enjoyed about TLJ. I never asked you to convince me of anything, I just told you what you'd have to do for me to see things your way. You might want to think about why trying to convince me I'm wrong for liking a movie is going to fall on deaf ears.
You might find it necessary to tear others down for liking the things you don't like but don't assume everyone is like that.
Don't be naive. Luke Skywalker was the VERY HEART of the original trilogy by being the person that even after being severely pressured to give up the good side, he would persevere and push for the redemption of the dark side, e.g. he was being pressured by multiple people to give up on Anakin but he insisted he would not give up on him and ultimately he was the VERY REASON THE ORIGINAL SAGA HAD A CONCLUSION.
Only if he had a severe clinically psychological issue he would change to someone that almost murdered a child on Last Jedi. The movie did not imply that so it's nonsense and a disgrace.
Again, it's hypocritical to promote "new" by making a story nonsense. If you truly want "new" stop being fixated to an old franchise and promote new stories.
Luke's portrayal in TLJ is entirely in keeping with the conclusion of his character arc in ROTJ.
I didn't attack you. Also you have provided zero arguments so you have zero rights to pretend to be right.
The fact of the matter is Luke Skywalker was the very heart of the franchise. He was being pressured by multiple people (including Anakin) to give up on Anakin and he was the very reason the saga had a conclusion because of that.
Turning him into a character that gives up on a child just because of a suspicion he would turn dark is absolute nonsense and a disgrace at writing. It would make remote sense if he had a severe and clinical physiological reason but he didn't.
Again, the hypocrisy here comes from those that promote "new" while they are being fixated to an old franchise. If you truly want "new" stop being fixated to old franchises and promote new franchises.
Making nonsense from an old franchise harms both the franchise and the movie industry in general.
Settle down. He didn't attack you either.
He gave into his worst impulses once before, and it nearly cost him everything. He jeopardised Yoda and Obi-Wan's plan to overthrow the Empire on a gut feeling that maybe Anakin wasn't totally gone just yet. Luke buying into his own legend and making a life or death decision based on a gut feeling is totally within his character.
And each trilogy is its own self-contained story. You’re right. Luke’s tale during the OT was one of overcoming incredible obstacles. You will get no argument from me on that.
But I see nothing hypocritical in wanting to see a franchise continue. Star Wars, by design, is a multigenerational story. It is not only a story of different generations, it’s a story for different generations. Luke, Anakin, Rey— hell, throw in Ahsoka, Ezra and Kaz if you want — they are heroes for children of different times. I have a three month old. I’m excited to share all of this with him someday because I’m passing down what I’ve loved. I enjoy Star Wars but I make no pretense that it’s anything more than a popcorn film basically designed for adolescents. No Star Wars film is perfect but once I stop worrying so much about what it is exactly I envision seeing in the next adventure and just enjoy the ride? I have a much better time. Do I discuss and defend these films? Yes I do. Because that for me is as enjoyable as seeing the movies.
But I get that others feel differently. Just do me a favor and don’t discriminate against me because our tastes are different. That’s called gatekeeping. And it’s fucking obnoxious.