The Last Jedi - Actually Widely Hated?

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Link doesn't work in Europe.



Or he just made a stupid comment when trying to impress investors which the company was never seriously going to follow up on. Literally the very first article I could find mentioning this story (and you'd like this article because it said GE wouldn't be a success all the way back in february) immediately noted that Iger's comment was wildly uncharacteristic for Disney who are widely known for promoting the shit out of every new product, period.

here is the text of the February article because you can't read it:


Don’t expect Disney to drop big money to advertise the Star Wars lands opening this year in California and Orlando.

“Maybe I should just tweet — ‘It’s opening!' and that will be enough,” Disney CEO Bob Iger said Tuesday during a’n earnings call.

Iger spoke off the cuff in a few light-hearted moments as Walt Disney Company’s theme parks performed strongly in another financial quarter.

Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge gate
Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge gate
A formidable barrier keeps eyes off of most of the construction for Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge, which opens in August at Disney's Hollywood Studios theme park. (Dewayne Bevil/Orlando Sentinel)

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“We’re going to end up with incredibly popular and in-demand products with these two new lands,” Iger went on about Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge which debuts this summer in California and late fall in Walt Disney World’s Hollywood Studios. “They’re large. They’re beautiful, and they’re extremely innovative. And they obviously leverage the popularity of the Star Wars brand.”

“We’re going to have absolutely no problem getting attention… It’s not going to take much marketing to do that.”

The costs for opening Star Wars: Galaxy’s End will be wrapped into the operating income and expense budget lines at the parks, said Disney chief financial officer Christine McCarthy during the call although she didn’t elaborate on how much that be might be.

For the first quarter results, revenue jumped 5 percent to $6.8 billion in the theme parks, experiences and consumer products division compared to the same quarter in 2017.

The growth in operating income was from higher hotel room occupancy at Disney resorts and guests spent more on food, beverage and merchandise, the company said. The average cost for Disney tickets and Disney hotels rates also increased.

For the fiscal first quarter that ended in December, Disney reported adjusted earnings per share of $1.84. Analysts on average had expected $1.55, according to Reuters.

 

[fireproof78]

Sure.. but you'd think that a DISNEY THEME PARK JUST OPENED.. A NEW SHOW IS COMING OUT, A NEW MOVIE THAT IS THE CULMINATION OF THE WHOLE FRANCHISE IS COMING OUT, and, with what the CEO said... the fact is SW is sluggish right now, the buzz ain't up to snuff. Just saying. You can believe what you want.

Oh, no...Star Wars is sluggish. Park attendance is down. Must be the horrible mismanagement of Disney...

I'll worry about it when Disney stops producing SW content. Actually, no I won't. I'll enjoy all the content that I have.

 

[Campe]

So you are just going to swallow what Iger says... huh?

what about this: “I just think that we might’ve put a little bit too much in the marketplace too fast,” Iger said about the response to “Star Wars” under Disney. “I think the storytelling capabilities of the company are endless because of the talent we have at the company, and the talent we have at the company is better than it’s ever been, in part because of the influx of people from Fox.”

Fox acquisition was so recent Bob, and it has nothing to do with Disney SW. And people would be on board with Disney Disney SW if they liked the stories !!!

Do you understand that Iger wasn’t just speaking of Star Wars there? He was speaking of Disney as a whole at the same time acknowledging, “Yeah, I may have fucked up with Star Wars!”

And yes, I have acknowledged that that has affected quality. No one has denied the fact that there are fans out there that aren’t happy with the direction of Star Wars. Hell, I just spent an entire post stating that while I’ve enjoyed the Star Wars films despite flaws and I’m cautiously optimistic about the direction of the franchise, I fully admit that it has lost something. Can you maybe accept the fact that people can be entertained and be critical at the same time?

 

[fireproof78]

And yes, I have acknowledged that that has affected quality. No one has denied the fact that there are fans out there that aren’t happy with the direction of Star Wars. Hell, I just spent an entire post stating that while I’ve enjoyed the Star Wars films despite flaws and I’m cautiously optimistic about the direction Star Wars, I fully admit that it has lost something. Can you maybe accept the fact that people can be entertained and be critical at the same time?

Exactly. There are so many moving parts with Star Wars that I can be both entertained, and recognize that there are failings. Kind of like Iger admitting as such around Solo. There is so much struggles with this product, and this is nothing Disney hasn't experienced before.

So, I'll be criticial if I deem it appropriate. But, I'm not going to run around looking for problems when the performance of Galaxya's Edge is not my concern, nor am I worried about Disney's employment or promotional efforts.

 

[Ithekro]

I'd welcome a 'Walt Disney Presents" type set of specials for the modern Disney parks. It can be contrast with the old ones from the 50s to see what's changed. Plus I know people who never have and will never go to even Disneyland due to them not liking to travel at all, but enjoy the specials as the closest thing they will have to experiencing the place.

 

[ScottJ85]

I think the lesson of Solo is the same as that of Star Trek Beyond, that there is only so much room in the market for big blockbuster films, especially when they’re poorly marketed.

 

[Campe]

I think the lesson of Solo is the same as that of Star Trek Beyond, that there is only so much room in the market for big blockbuster films, especially when they’re poorly marketed.

I'm not going to suggest for a second that Last Jedi backlash didn't have something to do with the failure of Solo, but it was one of several issues surrounding its failure. Yes, poor marketing played a part too. But the well-publicized behind-the-scenes drama, the recasting of an iconic character and the lack of interest in this movie played a part.

 

[ScottJ85]

All good points.

 

[Campe]

As it comes to Galaxy's Edge, a one-day ticket to Disney World today is $109, but they can go as high as $159. Think about a family of four. For one day, that's $666.70 with taxes. (Kids under 10 are discounted.) For one day. In 2011, tickets were $85 a day and not too long ago, they were maxing at $124. I agree that it was a mistake to raise prices ahead of the opening of Galaxy's Edge. At the same time, I think they were trying to capitalize on it in order to appease their shareholders. Their gambit failed. It happens. I think its telling that its a mistake when while attendance numbers are down in Q3, profits are up. According to an August article at Theme Park Insider on the Q3 results:

Disney reported that domestic park attendance declined 3% in the quarter but that per-capita guest spending was up 10%, thanks in part to higher ticket prices. Per room hotel spending was up 3% on a 2% increase on occupancy, which stood at 88%.

But that is across the board at Disney Parks. Its not JUST Galaxy's Edge. Yes, Galaxy's Edge was a culprit in regards to the increased ticket prices. Yes, the person overseeing the U.S. Disney parks is (likely involuntarily) stepping down. But as that's the case, then despite what Disney says, this is not according to plan. Sure, there are aspects that are to take into consideration that were to plan, particularly the blocking out of annual passes. Yes, Galaxy's Edge seems to be a place to spend a lot of money in order to get the full experience (which is missing one of its big attractions at the moment) which could potentially lower the numbers, but if you've been to a Disney park as an adult, that's kinda what they do (but $200 for a lightsaber?). Yeah, the popularity of Star Wars may have scared some families away from big crowds. (My wife and I are contemplating a trip to Disneyland when I have to be in L.A. for grad school in December. If our little guy was mobile and we thought there would be huge crowds at the park? There's no way in hell we'd go. A lot of families I imagine feel that way.)

There was some suggestion at some point (and I don't know if that was in this thread or the actual Galaxy's Edge thread) that the content was the reason for the failure. That being focused on the sequels as opposed to having Darth Vader roaming the park was the real issue. I don't believe that's the case. Whether or not the die-hard fans aren't interested in the sequel trilogy, the general populous (who is truly the bread and butter of Disney Parks) care more about what is happening now. And that will change as Star Wars continues. I imagine if the land is successful (it really is too early to say), in 2022, we will see stuff based on the next trilogy at that time. That's why we're getting what someone is touting as the "Dollar General version of Star Wars." So it can be molded into whatever the future of Star Wars brings. Not to lock it down in one time and one location that is really focused in that one time.

As for corporate synergy, which is exactly why the Disney-produced shows are going to start having Galaxy's Edge tie-ins today on their owned networks, as others have stated, this is nothing new. Walt Disney did this back in the day with specials and sitcoms in the 90s to today such as Full House, Family Matters, Roseanne, Sabrina the Teenage Witch, Step-By-Step and The Middle visited the parks. Why wouldn't they capitalize on getting advertising out there for families that might want to go experience Star Wars?

Galaxy's Edge appears to be a work in progress and I personally can understand some people's apprehension to go as the land is not complete, there was fear of long lines and the ticket prices have gone up. But I find it extremely unlikely that they will transform it to an Alaadin-themed land after less than a year being open. Not when they dropped $1 billion on the attractions. This is a long game. And sure it's been a little disappointing thus far. But they're not going to give up on it so quickly.

 

[Smellmet]

As it comes to Galaxy's Edge, a one-day ticket to Disney World today is $109, but they can go as high as $159. Think about a family of four. For one day, that's $666.70 with taxes. (Kids under 10 are discounted.)

I had no idea how much it would cost to get in there - I knew it would be expensive to get in there but those prices are just fucking obscene, even the lower price you quote in your message.

That's literally well over double the price it costs to get into any of the UK's top theme parks (admittedly they are not Disney World level, but still).

There's very little chance of me being able to take my family there, ever.

 

[Campe]

I had no idea how much it would cost to get in there - I knew it would be expensive to get in there but those prices are just fucking obscene, even the lower price you quote in your message.

That's literally well over double the price it costs to get into any of the UK's top theme parks (admittedly they are not Disney World level, but still).

There's very little chance of me being able to take my family there, ever.

We went to Disney World last December for two days. Once you added airfare, hotel, meals, etc., it was obscene the cost just for the two of us. And that was before they raised prices. But, for multiple days, there is a discount.

 

[Crewman6]

here is the text of the February article because you can't read it:


Don’t expect Disney to drop big money to advertise the Star Wars lands opening this year in California and Orlando.

“Maybe I should just tweet — ‘It’s opening!' and that will be enough,” Disney CEO Bob Iger said Tuesday during a’n earnings call.

Iger spoke off the cuff in a few light-hearted moments as Walt Disney Company’s theme parks performed strongly in another financial quarter.

Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge gate
Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge gate
A formidable barrier keeps eyes off of most of the construction for Star Wars: Galaxy's Edge, which opens in August at Disney's Hollywood Studios theme park. (Dewayne Bevil/Orlando Sentinel)

1 / 129
“We’re going to end up with incredibly popular and in-demand products with these two new lands,” Iger went on about Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge which debuts this summer in California and late fall in Walt Disney World’s Hollywood Studios. “They’re large. They’re beautiful, and they’re extremely innovative. And they obviously leverage the popularity of the Star Wars brand.”

“We’re going to have absolutely no problem getting attention… It’s not going to take much marketing to do that.”

The costs for opening Star Wars: Galaxy’s End will be wrapped into the operating income and expense budget lines at the parks, said Disney chief financial officer Christine McCarthy during the call although she didn’t elaborate on how much that be might be.

For the first quarter results, revenue jumped 5 percent to $6.8 billion in the theme parks, experiences and consumer products division compared to the same quarter in 2017.

The growth in operating income was from higher hotel room occupancy at Disney resorts and guests spent more on food, beverage and merchandise, the company said. The average cost for Disney tickets and Disney hotels rates also increased.

For the fiscal first quarter that ended in December, Disney reported adjusted earnings per share of $1.84. Analysts on average had expected $1.55, according to Reuters.

You're just kind of desperately flailing at this point. What is it you're trying to accomplish, exactly?

Because we've moved well beyond any conversation of the films and their relative merits or even whether or not Galaxy's Edge is actually a fun time at the theme parks.

Now your'e just trying to score any points against Disney and, I dunno, those of us on the board who like some of the new Star Wars product they're putting out?

So you're, what, desperate to prove park attendance is down. Everyone knows this, it's a fact. The reasons for it are complex. Galaxy's Edge was not the smash hit they were hoping. On this, we all agree. Let's move on.

You're trying to catch the CEO of a billion dollar corporation in a white lie or giving corporate spin? Or prove that what he said eight months ago doesn't jibe with what he said one month ago? Wow, what a news flash. Iger has admitted the parks are underperforming for various reasons, he even admitted the ticket prices were a major factor. He also admitted that their initial Star Wars release strategy was a mistake. None of this is news. Woodward and Bernstein you're not. Let's move on.

You're pointing out that Disney is now doing damage control on Galaxy's Edge due to some (rather corny-sounding and shameless) cross-promotion. Welcome to 2019. As companies, especially media companies, continue to consolidate, this kind of vertically integrated cross promotions are just part of the landscape. It's not unique to Disney, it's not unique to Galaxy's Edge. Disney's been doing it since Walt was hosting these kinds of events personally. Again, not news, no one cares.

You're trying to blame the financial failure of Solo on the "backlash" to TLJ, which is, of course an impossible thing to prove. Surely there are some fans who probably didn't go because they didn't like TLJ. But Solo had a host of problems, including release date, poor marketing, endless reshoots and a premise that sounded utterly inessential to both SW fans and the general public at large.

I mean, are you happy, I guess, that you managed to point out a few facts that no one disagrees with? You keep changing the conversation, randomly pulling in bits of information into the mix or shifting your focus, all in an effort to, I dunno, create some kind of picture of a mass shared disappointment with Disney Star Wars.

So, uh, have fun with that, I guess.....

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

with regards to Luke (Jake): why does everyone have to be disillusioned? why does everything have to be deconstructed. Why do simple characters need to be dark to be complex? Maybe actually writing a simple hero is harder these days? But in any case.. I think it's just a cop-out

 

[Campe]

You keep changing the conversation, randomly pulling in bits of information into the mix or shifting your focus, all in an effort to, I dunno, create some kind of picture of a mass shared disappointment with Disney Star Wars.

Ironic based on the very next post!

 

[fireproof78]

Why do simple characters need to be dark to be complex?

Because real life is dark and complex. As I have stated (and will reiterate) I related as much to Luke from the OT in my youth as I do to the ST Luke in my adulthood. The struggles are relatable for me. Heroes age, they change-that is the nature of mythology.

Regardless, Disney isn't above criticism. But, I will struggle to accept criticism when it is a constant stream of finding reasons to bash on this company and this property. I went through it with the PT. I'm not going through it again.

 

[Crewman6]

with regards to Luke (Jake): why does everyone have to be disillusioned? why does everything have to be deconstructed. Why do simple characters need to be dark to be complex? Maybe actually writing a simple hero is harder these days? But in any case.. I think it's just a cop-out

It has nothing to do with being "dark", but it's about having a point. Movies need character arcs to be dramatically and narratively satisfying.

You can't have a movie composed of static characters who never change. If you do, you've failed to tell a story.

Luke has a character arc in "The Last Jedi." That's why the movie is emotionally satisfying.

Why does Luke "have to be" disillusioned in TLJ? Because it's a sequel to "The Force Awakens."

TFA unambiguously establishes that Luke quit. The temple was destroyed, Luke quit. He isn't in the movie. He quit. He's not working with Leia. He's not working with the Republic or the Resistance. He quit. He's not trying to fight Kylo or Snoke. He left, he's in exile, he's alone and not joining in. Because he quit.

These are the incontrovertible facts. This is what Rian Johnson was handed. He HAD to go with what he was given. He was given the VERY difficult job of explaining that extremely big character move that Luke was given. You can't just start Episode 8 and pretend none of what was established in TFA was true or that it didn't matter. Who knows what Johnson would have done if he was starting from scratch. Who knows what ANY other writer would have done with Luke if they were given the keys to the ST from the beginning. But JJ and his team were picked and those are the choices they made, for good or ill.

And, once you're given a disillusioned character, the obvious, simplest, cleanest, most satisfying story is to tell of the disillusioned character coming back to the fight. That's textbook. It's Writing 101. It's literally the opposite of a "cop out."

It was literally the ONLY thing TLJ could have been about (at least in regards to Luke.)

But, I dunno, maybe actually understanding the most basic fundamentals of drama is harder these days.

 

[Crewman6]

Ironic based on the very next post!

Haha, yeah. I noticed!

 

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Sure, heroes need conflicts, but that doesn't mean they need to be deconstructed or suddenly dark, and ti doesn't mean Disney should be shitting on the old characters to prop up the new, less interesting character. I never read the now-legends books, but apparently Luke did some cool stuff there. I just feel like they did the worst possible thing. That being said, as simple as it is, having Luke take out the green saber and schooling some fools (other than his nephew) would have been awesome to see.. simple? sure.. but why not? But in truth, I wouldn't want him to just do that. But I also didn't want them to smear this "Oh I have angst now" shit all over this character the way they did it. The original trilogy was a lesson in writing, so much so that they made it look easy.. they peppered complexity.. they didn't dish it out in spoonfuls.. the characters changed between films but not radically. And yes, I am sick of the 30 year time gap being an excuse for radical changes.. there is no off screen movie, more it just serves as an excuse for lazy screenwriting.. screenwriters today would rather go dark that to fortify the optimism . They could have kept Luke as a good man the one that others use.. both now and alter, as a kind of measuring rod for Jedi.. and the fact that he put family and friends above all could have changed the Jedi philosophy gradually over many years. But they smeared a lot of crap on his character. And the fna base may be split. add to that a lady in a purple dress who is a bitch, hyperspace nonsense, Leia Poppins, terrible humor with Hux, a convoluted story, moral grandstanding, a useless subplot that "teaches Finn" in ways that no scripted story should ever teach a character, terrible hackneyed editing, radical tonal shifts with awful humor, and a film that really is just boring anyway, and you have a disaster

 

[DigificWriter]

^ You keep trotting out "the 30-year time gap" thing, but the changes in Luke's character didn't happen over the course of 30 years; they happened within 3 to 4 years of the events chronicled in both TFA and TLJ.

That is an incontrovertible fact, but apparently it's just easier to ignore said fact.

 

[fireproof78]

^ You keep trotting out "the 30-year time gap" thing, but the changes in Luke's character didn't happen over the course of 30 years; they happened within 3 to 4 years of the events chronicled in both TFA and TLJ.

That is an incontrovertible fact, but apparently it's just easier to ignore said fact.

It's also easy to ignore that characters struggling doesn't equal "shitting on".