The Kobayashi Maru Test

[I Grok Spock]

The only thing I see that plays against the "Kirk wanted them to know he cheated" interpretation is that he looks pretty anxious when Komack calls him up to the podium. It's only when he starts getting into it with Spock that he seems to be leading to the notion of "I cheated to show you how stupid your test is." Once the distress call comes in from Vulcan, we don't find out what the brass were going to do with Kirk.

And is there real value in a "no-win scenario" test, when everyone knows ahead of time that it's The No-Win Scenario Test? Wouldn't you think, "well, they're looking to see how I face certain doom, so I'll valiantly sacrifice myself." Would it be more valuable if the cadets didn't know what the test was or when it would take place?

...which is giving me a TNG flashback here involving Wesley. Well, that'll be an extra session with my therapist.

 

[Checkmate]

^
^^ They could have easily charged him with misconduct -- but they didn't.

Both this movie and TWoK establishes that Starfleet was "impressed" with Kirk's solution. Even if it is primarily a Personality test, Kirk's solution to the test probably ranks as a highlight in his Starfleet Academy "Personality and Aptitude File".

No.

This timeline most certainly did not demonstrate that. Which is my entire beef with what happened. He was called out for being a cheater. He made no effort whatsoever to claim otherwise, and he made no effort to actually explain why he really did it (which, again, was to prove that he was willing to do whatever it took to win even against a no-win scenario). And absolutely no one was shown to be impressed by what he did. Not Starfleet. Not Spock. Not Pike. Not even Kirk himself. As protrayed, he was just a dickwad cheater, and that was his entire goal: To show "the man" just how much of a rebel he was. Screw the no-win scenario, man!

What was protrayed was Kirk simply being left off the hook because he saved the world before the trial could be completed.

 

[USSPhilippi]

One of the biggest (and only) problems I really had with Star Trek was the entire Kobayashi Maru subplot.

I don't think Abrams quite grasped the nuances behind Kirk cheating on the test. In this movie, he apparently did it to rebel because he was tired of no one ever passing it. He was just an arrogant brat who cheated because he could. And when called on it, he didn't try to argue the valid point the original Kirk had. He did it, and I paraphrase, because he "didn't believe in no-win scenarios."

The whole point of original Kirk's cheating wasn't simply because he didn't believe in no-win scenarios. It was because he firmly believed that as a captain facing a no-win scenario, you had to think outside the box and do whatever was in your power to do to win. Which is exactly what he did. And it's exactly why he was (eventually) applauded for it.

What's worse, the new Kirk didn't even bother to be subtle about it. He didn't reprogram the scenario to simply give him a slight advantage in which he could use some kind of ingenious tactic to win. He just wiped out the shields, acting like a jerk, ate an apple, and pretended his hand was a revolver, all apparently under the assumption that no one would figure out he cheated so blantantly. Even worse, the new Spock acted bewildered at how he could have "won" the scenario after watching him do exactly that.

I'm just disappointed that it was such a wasted opportunity and, for me, it was easily one of the weakest character moments in the film that forever tarnishes the tactical brilliance of Kirk.

Still enjoyed the rest of the movie immensely, mind you. Just not this part.

My favorite critic agrees with you.

The Kobayashi Maru scene itself is one of the movie’s few miscalculations, though, since Kirk’s jokey frat-boy insouciance in that scene makes it a juvenile prank rather than a subversively idealistic denial of “no-win scenarios.”

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

^
^^ They could have easily charged him with misconduct -- but they didn't.

Both this movie and TWoK establishes that Starfleet was "impressed" with Kirk's solution. Even if it is primarily a Personality test, Kirk's solution to the test probably ranks as a highlight in his Starfleet Academy "Personality and Aptitude File".

No.

This timeline most certainly did not demonstrate that. Which is my entire beef with what happened. He was called out for being a cheater. He made no effort whatsoever to claim otherwise, and he made no effort to actually explain why he really did it (which, again, was to prove that he was willing to do whatever it took to win even against a no-win scenario). And absolutely no one was shown to be impressed by what he did. Not Starfleet. Not Spock. Not Pike. Not even Kirk himself. As protrayed, he was just a dickwad cheater, and that was his entire goal: To show "the man" just how much of a rebel he was. Screw the no-win scenario, man!

What was protrayed was Kirk simply being left off the hook because he saved the world before the trial could be completed.

Or...

Seen in the new light as someone who just saved the Earth/Federation, the actions he took during the Kobayashi Maru test seem to be a stroke of ingenuity rather than the actions of a sneaky cheat.

I (and I assume Starfleet) would have far less respect for Kirk if he started trying to explain away his actions pertaining to the test. His solution for the test speaks for itself; let Starfleet figure it out.

Again...If Kirk had actually tried to subtly cheat and get away with it, that would be an immature move indeed. This Kirk flaunted that fact that he cheated to prove that the test could be beat by cheating. Kirk cheating without "Flaunting" the fact that he cheated would be pointless, and just serve to make him look like a sneaky brat.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I thought Spock was going to shake his fist and yell "MAHONEYYY!!!!!".

The scene needed something, it just felt like Kirk yanking the chains of authority because he's a prick not because of some deeper conviction.

Personally...I suspected the way Kirk conducted himself in this timeline was not the way he conducted himself in TOS: I view the Timeline B Kirk as dysfunctional in a lot of ways, possibly because of the loss of his father, which didn't happen in Timeline A. To me, his entire borderline-sociopathic personality, to include his behavior with the Kobayashi Maru, is a symptom of that initial breach in the timeline. So yes, his behavior is out of character and crass in the extreme for a Timeline A Kirk. But I can accept it for this timeline...it shows the symptoms of the Romulans' meddling, in which most people took a turn for the worse (Pike being the exception) and really lost out on that destiny Spock mentioned--what they could have been.

 

[Checkmate]

Man, you guys get hooked on the wrong details.

I don't care if he was blatant about what he did or tried to be more subtle (my personal preference); none of that matters. What matters is why he did it. In this movie, he only did it to rebel, just like everything else he had done up to that point. There was no ulterior motive. There was no attempt to show that he'd do anything to actually win for the sake of winning. He just wanted to piss people off because he was pissed off, and that is what he was flaunting during the actual scene.

No one, at any point whatsoever during the film, was impressed by his actions. Instead, he was just a cheat who was about to get his ass kicked out of the academy. It was only Nero's antics that saved his ass.

 

[theFirebottle]

What Kirk was really doing was demonstrating the inapplicability of final exams to the real world.

From a certain point of view, the test itself was flawed: contrived, unrealistic, and, for its stated purpose of confronting cadets with the fear of certain death and disaster, ineffective. In the same way that acing a final exam on linguistic morphology will never help a linguist gain the key stroke of theoretical insight on a body of field data, a simulator scenario that cadets all know about and can plan in advance for will never help a Starfleet officer confront and react to the reality of certain destruction and failure. Only real danger, real death, and real failure can truly measure that dimension of an officer's capability and personality.

 

[Peter the Younger]

Man, you guys get hooked on the wrong details.

I don't care if he was blatant about what he did or tried to be more subtle (my personal preference); none of that matters. What matters is why he did it. In this movie, he only did it to rebel, just like everything else he had done up to that point. There was no ulterior motive. There was no attempt to show that he'd do anything to actually win for the sake of winning. He just wanted to piss people off because he was pissed off, and that is what he was flaunting during the actual scene.

No one, at any point whatsoever during the film, was impressed by his actions. Instead, he was just a cheat who was about to get his ass kicked out of the academy. It was only Nero's antics that saved his ass.

So, we're all paying attention to the "wrong" details (i.e., the ones that do not support your case), but you are free to assign motives to the character based on your interpretation. Nice.

 

[Qonos]

Man, you guys get hooked on the wrong details.

I don't care if he was blatant about what he did or tried to be more subtle (my personal preference); none of that matters. What matters is why he did it. In this movie, he only did it to rebel, just like everything else he had done up to that point. There was no ulterior motive. There was no attempt to show that he'd do anything to actually win for the sake of winning. He just wanted to piss people off because he was pissed off, and that is what he was flaunting during the actual scene.

No one, at any point whatsoever during the film, was impressed by his actions. Instead, he was just a cheat who was about to get his ass kicked out of the academy. It was only Nero's antics that saved his ass.

If he was only doing it to rebel he wouldn't have cared who was there with him when he did it. He wanted McCoy there, that's not just "Hey you're my buddy, I need you there. He was saying "I got something big planned, you ought to watch."

If he was ONLY doing it to rebel he could have done a million other things to do it. Beating the Unbeatable and getting caught for it doesn't sound like the act of a rebel. It sounds like someone trying to prove a point, a discussion that was as you said interrupted half way through by the distress call from Vulcan.

I think you're focused on the wrong details. Remember we never get to learn of his motivations because the board was interrupted, the inquest never really began, infact it never got farther than our two man characters bickering.

 

[Koinek]

The writers here recognized the basic problem with Kirk cheating on a test - basically, if he does it in such a way as to avoid being caught, he's a dick who we cannot respect - and portrayed his defiance of the whole notion of the thing excellently. This is one of my favorite sequences in the movie.

Spock is bemused by how Kirk could have beaten the test because of his own pride and his underestimation of the kid on the other side of the window who's playing cowboys and indians with the simulator viewscreen. That Kirk cheated is obvious - and ought to be - that he could have hacked Spock's program is unthinkable. And of course, in Spock's chilly self-isolation the notion that someone would have chosen to help Kirk does not immediately occur to him.

Agreed. To me, the scene actually speaks volumes about Kirk's character. Hiding the fact that you cheated means that you're trying to get away with something that you actively recognize is wrong. It signifies weakness.

Instead I see a confident young man who isn't afraid to confront norms and find unorthodox solutions.

The only thing I see that plays against the "Kirk wanted them to know he cheated" interpretation is that he looks pretty anxious when Komack calls him up to the podium. It's only when he starts getting into it with Spock that he seems to be leading to the notion of "I cheated to show you how stupid your test is." Once the distress call comes in from Vulcan, we don't find out what the brass were going to do with Kirk.

But you're forgetting one important thing I think:
Pike's speech in bar which speaks of Kirk's (and George Kirk's) unorthodox thinking. Pike feels this is lacking Starfleet.

Goes to the whole "you don't show a gun in a movie if it's not going to be used". Kirk's reaction to the Kobayashi Maru was precisely what Pike was talking about. I agree that going into the trial a bit more would have been nice and established it a bit more. But maybe JJ wanted the audience to reach their own conclusions about Kirkso that he could play on them later.

Also, this movie makes it abundantly clear that JTK isn't an idiot. He is never shown to be a dumbass. He's intelligent, if a little arrogant. With a distortion that occured when the cheat was activated, he couldn't possibly have expected to get away with it. Also, I think the whole "Klingon transmission" scenes on the Enterprise show us that he isn't afraid to let people know he's "cheated" if he's sure of his convictions. He ran onto the bridge of a starship he had been illegally smuggled onto.

It's like if a student cheated on a essay he/she was supposed to write about a book they just read, and when they were caught, they'd simply say the book is useless because they don't believe it will have any relevance in their life, just like what Kirk thought about the no-win scenario. And what do we do in the end? We turn this kid into the teacher of the class.

But is the test filled with questions that cannot in any possible way be answered correctly? I think you're comparing two totally different scenarios. I think JTK's performance was as much for his fellow students as the instructors.

Man, you guys get hooked on the wrong details.

So we're wrong and you're right. Got it. Thanks for the chat. Cookies and Lemonade at the door.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It was only Nero's antics that saved his ass.

No, it was saving Earth by disobeying orders that saved his ass.

You got hooked on the wrong detail, there.

 

[trampledamage]

It was only Nero's antics that saved his ass.

No, it was saving Earth by disobeying orders that saved his ass.

You got hooked on the wrong detail, there.

Which ties us back into Pike's comments in the bar about Starfleet needing more go-getting Captains. Kirk saved Earth by disobeying orders, which presumably made the Admirals re-think their response to his lack of respect towards the KM test.

 

[Jackson_Roykirk]

...But you're forgetting one important thing I think:
Pike's speech in bar which speaks of Kirk's (and George Kirk's) unorthodox thinking. Pike feels this is lacking Starfleet.

Goes to the whole "you don't show a gun in a movie if it's not going to be used". Kirk's reaction to the Kobayashi Maru was precisely what Pike was talking about. I agree that going into the trial a bit more would have been nice and established it a bit more. But maybe JJ wanted the audience to reach their own conclusions about Kirkso that he could play on them later.

Also, this movie makes it abundantly clear that JTK isn't an idiot. He is never shown to be a dumbass. He's intelligent, if a little arrogant. With a distortion that occured when the cheat was activated, he couldn't possibly have expected to get away with it...

Right -- we are presented with a pattern of behavior for Kirk when it comes to "breaking the rules to do what's right" throughout this film that is totally consistent -- including "flauntingly cheating" on the Kobayashi Maru.

I suppose we could have had a scene where Kirk explains his actions to the council (and the movie audience) so we can all know this aspect of Kirk's personality, but it's better in a film (or a book) for the audience to discover these things for themselves rather than having our hands held by explaining these things to us. It has a much greater impact if we figure out these characters ourselves from the clues given.


Checkmate --

I know you are convinced that Kirk's flaunting the fact that he cheated was basically like mooning TPTB at Starfleet Academy (sort of like a Nelson "Ha-Ha" on the Simpsons), but I don't see how he can jump to that conclusion, especially given all of the other infomation we get regarding Kirk from the rest of the film. Throughout the film we see Kirk as someone who isn't afraid to break the rules to do what he thinks is right.

He didn't sneak aboard the Enterprise just for the thrill of being a "bad boy" -- he did it for a reason. He didn't pick a fight with Spock (his Commanding Officer) just because he thought it would be fun to get under his skin -- he did it for a reason. I even think that perhaps he had a semi-valid reason for stealing stepdad's 'vette (I don't know what that reason could be, but it's a valid question to ask given Kirk's actions throughout the rest of the film.)

Furthermore, I don't know what you wanted to see instead. If you don't like Kirk cheating in an overtly obvious manner (a manner that was instantly recognizable by his actions and the test outcome as "changing the program"), would you rather that he did it covertly?

Was he cocky? Sure. Did he do it just to "give the finger" to TPTB at Starfleet? No...he did it for a reason.

 

[xman]

Count me among those that liked the way the Kobayashi Maru test played out and how Kirk defended himself. That along with so many other details about his character made me really believe in this young Kirk.

X

 

[The Wormhole]

One of the biggest (and only) problems I really had with Star Trek was the entire Kobayashi Maru subplot.

I don't think Abrams quite grasped the nuances behind Kirk cheating on the test. In this movie, he apparently did it to rebel because he was tired of no one ever passing it. He was just an arrogant brat who cheated because he could. And when called on it, he didn't try to argue the valid point the original Kirk had. He did it, and I paraphrase, because he "didn't believe in no-win scenarios."

The whole point of original Kirk's cheating wasn't simply because he didn't believe in no-win scenarios. It was because he firmly believed that as a captain facing a no-win scenario, you had to think outside the box and do whatever was in your power to do to win. Which is exactly what he did. And it's exactly why he was (eventually) applauded for it.

What's worse, the new Kirk didn't even bother to be subtle about it. He didn't reprogram the scenario to simply give him a slight advantage in which he could use some kind of ingenious tactic to win. He just wiped out the shields, acting like a jerk, ate an apple, and pretended his hand was a revolver, all apparently under the assumption that no one would figure out he cheated so blantantly. Even worse, the new Spock acted bewildered at how he could have "won" the scenario after watching him do exactly that.

I'm just disappointed that it was such a wasted opportunity and, for me, it was easily one of the weakest character moments in the film that forever tarnishes the tactical brilliance of Kirk.

Still enjoyed the rest of the movie immensely, mind you. Just not this part.

I too agree that the Kobayashi Maru was horribly mishandled in XI. Mainly that Kirk just made it too obvious he was cheating. After all, he doesn't bother doing anything until after the computers flicker and suddenly the program is drastically different (Klingons no longer have their sheilds raised). This was not how I pictured the Kobayashi Maru when I first heard about in TWOK, and not a very good depiction of it. I think this is the first time I can legitimately say my childhood has been raped.

 

[Koinek]

I too agree that the Kobayashi Maru was horribly mishandled in XI. Mainly that Kirk just made it too obvious he was cheating. After all, he doesn't bother doing anything until after the computers flicker and suddenly the program is drastically different (Klingons no longer have their sheilds raised). This was not how I pictured the Kobayashi Maru when I first heard about in TWOK, and not a very good depiction of it. I think this is the first time I can legitimately say my childhood has been raped.

Did you think Kirk was trying to be genuinely dishonest during his test then? Do you think Kirk was trying to pass the test or do you think he was doing it to make a point?

Frankly, I'd rather think Kirk is not an academic cheat; Kirk prime especially.

I'm starting to wonder how much experience those of you who take issue with Kirk's openess know about academic honesty or take it seriously. Personally, it took some experiences in college where a friend plagiarized me to really get to where I am on the subject.

 

[The Wormhole]

I too agree that the Kobayashi Maru was horribly mishandled in XI. Mainly that Kirk just made it too obvious he was cheating. After all, he doesn't bother doing anything until after the computers flicker and suddenly the program is drastically different (Klingons no longer have their sheilds raised). This was not how I pictured the Kobayashi Maru when I first heard about in TWOK, and not a very good depiction of it. I think this is the first time I can legitimately say my childhood has been raped.

Did you think Kirk was trying to be genuinely dishonest during his test then? Do you think Kirk was trying to pass the test or do you think he was doing it to make a point?

Frankly, I'd rather think Kirk is not an academic cheat; Kirk prime especially.

I'm starting to wonder how much experience those of you who take issue with Kirk's openess know about academic honesty or take it seriously. Personally, it took some experiences in college where a friend plagiarized me to really get to where I am on the subject.

I was expecting Kirk to be subtle about his cheating. Perhaps, have everything set up prior to the test's beginning, then have things so that maybe the Klingons as just slightly less efficient than they are normally.

Instead, program begins, Kirk slouches in his chair. Computers blink. Kirk's like "Okay, fire a torpedo at each ship." Each ship destroyed in one shot. Kirk eats apple with undeserved sense of accomplishment.

 

[trampledamage]

I too agree that the Kobayashi Maru was horribly mishandled in XI. Mainly that Kirk just made it too obvious he was cheating. After all, he doesn't bother doing anything until after the computers flicker and suddenly the program is drastically different (Klingons no longer have their sheilds raised). This was not how I pictured the Kobayashi Maru when I first heard about in TWOK, and not a very good depiction of it. I think this is the first time I can legitimately say my childhood has been raped.

Did you think Kirk was trying to be genuinely dishonest during his test then? Do you think Kirk was trying to pass the test or do you think he was doing it to make a point?

Frankly, I'd rather think Kirk is not an academic cheat; Kirk prime especially.

I'm starting to wonder how much experience those of you who take issue with Kirk's openess know about academic honesty or take it seriously. Personally, it took some experiences in college where a friend plagiarized me to really get to where I am on the subject.

I was expecting Kirk to be subtle about his cheating. Perhaps, have everything set up prior to the test's beginning, then have things so that maybe the Klingons as just slightly less efficient than they are normally.

Instead, program begins, Kirk slouches in his chair. Computers blink. Kirk's like "Okay, fire a torpedo at each ship." Each ship destroyed in one shot. Kirk eats apple with undeserved sense of accomplishment.

But that would make him an actual cheat - acting dishonestly for his own gain. Surely that's not true of either Kirk?

 

[flemm]

And is there real value in a "no-win scenario" test, when everyone knows ahead of time that it's The No-Win Scenario Test? Wouldn't you think, "well, they're looking to see how I face certain doom, so I'll valiantly sacrifice myself." Would it be more valuable if the cadets didn't know what the test was or when it would take place?

I think this is an excellent point. How is a computer simulation that you know you can't beat going to test your character? Pretty much not at all.

The concept of the Kobayashi Maru was more compelling before it was fleshed out, sort of like the "Noodle Incident" in Calvin & Hobbes (which is referred to several times but never shown on panel or described in detail).

I thought the Kobayashi Maru itself lost a little of its mystique through this rather sterile depiction of the test itself.

On the other hand, the scene seems to have worked from a character development standpoint (for Kirk), just judging from audience reaction and non-fans I have seen the movie with.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The only thing about the Kobayashi Maru test scene that had a problem with was Kirk's blatant cockiness during the entire test. I would have liked to seen a more laid back approach, Jim knowing that he's changed the sequence but not so obvious about it. I think it was slightly overplayed for comedic purposes...but also maybe Kirk acknowledging that it was simulation and not the real thing so who gives a shit. The audience (both audiences now that I've seen it twice) seemed to enjoyed it and thought it was funny. I was with the simulation people and Spock who probably didn't...